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Disappointed by the overwhelmingly negative commentary here. There are multiple private companies providing this service for low amount, as many have mentioned

Disappointed by the overwhelmingly negative commentary here. There are multiple private companies providing this service for low amount, as many have mentioned; for free for incomes below a threshold. 1) Why would you want the IRS to duplicate this effort and compete with these companies? Remember 'Free' in this context means paid for by tax dollars. Do you think the IRS is going to spend less to implement a filing system than one of the existing vendors has? If they do it in-house, do they even have the expertise? If they contract it out, is that much different from what we have now? 2) Everyone needs to file state taxes anyway. Seems unlikely the IRS is going to handle this, as it adds a great deal of complexity and isn't really part of their mandate. So if you create a free IRS filing system, then people still need to go to one of the existing vendors and import their info and pay to file state taxes anyway. There are good reasons to think the IRS creating a system is a bad idea. Blaming passage on a few $K in lobbying is lazy.

eightysixfour 8y ago
2) Unless you have no state taxes.
jppope 8y ago
Pretty sure these arguments wouldn't change if the IRS provided a free service to submit federal taxes. 1) They could still provide free federal tax submissions 2) State taxes could still be submitted through the companies If the companies do in fact provide a service that is valuable the IRS should not be competition for them. Now with that said. Intuit loads up their service with tons of dark patterns, and they spend money lobbying... why would they be doing that if they provide a valuable service?
- areyouseriousxx 8y ago
  They do provide free federal tax submissions. Everytime I see this stuff come up, I'm in disbelief. I used Free File for over a decade when I had a lower income and 1040 type employment. You seriously click a button here: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f... Pick a provider and fill out the form. It doesn't even take more than 5 minutes. 10 if you're slow. How is it on a site full of highly intelligent and educated individuals, there is one single comment about Free File and how simple it is. And it has been around for many years. There are tons of comments in this thread about how income tax is not automated and free in the US, when it is actually almost automated(fill out name and address and income and the software does the rest) and free for 70% of people in the US. How? How are this many people commenting and no one appears to be aware that almost all of the comments in this thread are incorrect? On the state level, the federal government, for obvious reasons, cannot control that, but you will be happy to know that many states also support forms of Free File, although are often more restrictive. But with that said, many state taxes are just percentages of what your federal tax liability is so they are often half a page long forms for most people. And regardless of all of that, and regardless of income, if you have a typical 1040ez income, you can go down to the public library, get the form which is literally two pages and fill it out and mail it in. It also takes about 15 minutes and in 100% absolutely free. Well, you have to purchase a stamp. Seriously, do you not realize this has been the case forever? Are you located in the US? And if you make over $66k a year? Come on, you can afford $50.
  - jppope 8y ago
    So these (https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/) are all still companies loading their site up with dark UI patterns so that people end up paying money to file their taxes. And sending in the forms via mail has always been free. ...I don't understand what possible value you believe the American public gets by paying companies money to do something that the IRS could/should be offering for free?(not meant to be curt... just trying to understand your perceived value proposition) What is wrong with an electronic filing system offered by the IRS without a charge?
astazangasta 8y ago
1) Because the IRS can provide it to taxpayers for free. Of course they have the expertise. They are the ones who review the damn filings. The IRS should really just prepare everyone's tax return for free automatically using your submitted documents, then provide you the opportunity to approve or correct your filing. This would save everyone a huge amount of money and time (aka money). It would be a, you know, "public service", the thing governments are supposed to do.
ddlatham 8y ago
Upvoted. 1) I'd like the IRS to at least have a role, since the IRS is the only one who has a copy of all my tax information provided by employers, banks, brokerages, etc. They have a unique role in that they can pre-fill all the information, where someone like Intuit cannot. However, an opportunity where they simply provided that information to a third party with my permission could also be an interesting model. I haven't seen any exploration of that. 2) California, at least, already provides this service. But few use it because the federal government doesn't. If the federal government stepped up, many states would follow. I believe that the IRS providing it like most of the rest of the world would be a big step forward, but would be open to a role for private industry too.
webdevatlurk 8y ago
> Why would you want the IRS to duplicate this effort and compete with these companies? Is tax collection not a function of the government? I'd rather my taxes fund a free, easy tax filing system than pay fees to rent seeking middle men. Those fees are just an inflated tax by another name. We should be eliminating those kinds of taxes, not entrenching them. > If they do it in-house, do they even have the expertise? Government websites and software have a reputation for being ugly, slow, broken and poorly designed. Government is also capable of building good tools. Two organizations that have done good work and could conceivably work with the IRS are: - https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ - https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/ I'm also pretty sure the IRS has plenty of expertise around the filing of federal tax returns. > Everyone needs to file state taxes anyway. I don't see your point? Everyone will continue to file their state taxes separately, electing to use or not use available tools, as they always have.
lhorie 8y ago
> paid for by tax dollars You make it sound like that's a bad thing. If federal taxes don't go towards things that _the entire country's population_ could use, then, why are there taxes in the first place again? If you've got a complex tax situation that TurboTax asks you to file by mail, or even if you just want to file yourself, you have to go to - you guessed it - the IRS' website to get all the forms and instructions. The IRS already has to navigate all that complexity to put out all these forms and instructions for every field, tax table, eligibility flow charts etc and the government certainly employs developers[1] already. The government also has to budget for printing millions of 1040 pamphlets for the entire country, and they somehow are able to come up with budget for things like that Trump wall, so surely coming up with budget to implement electronic filing isn't a question of money waste? [1] https://v2.designsystem.digital.gov/components/ https://v2.designsystem.digital.gov/components/

eightysixfour 8y ago

2) Unless you have no state taxes.

jppope 8y ago

Pretty sure these arguments wouldn't change if the IRS provided a free service to submit federal taxes. 1) They could still provide free federal tax submissions 2) State taxes could still be submitted through the companies If the companies do in fact provide a service that is valuable the IRS should not be competition for them. Now with that said. Intuit loads up their service with tons of dark patterns, and they spend money lobbying... why would they be doing that if they provide a valuable service?

areyouseriousxx 8y ago
They do provide free federal tax submissions. Everytime I see this stuff come up, I'm in disbelief. I used Free File for over a decade when I had a lower income and 1040 type employment. You seriously click a button here: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f... Pick a provider and fill out the form. It doesn't even take more than 5 minutes. 10 if you're slow. How is it on a site full of highly intelligent and educated individuals, there is one single comment about Free File and how simple it is. And it has been around for many years. There are tons of comments in this thread about how income tax is not automated and free in the US, when it is actually almost automated(fill out name and address and income and the software does the rest) and free for 70% of people in the US. How? How are this many people commenting and no one appears to be aware that almost all of the comments in this thread are incorrect? On the state level, the federal government, for obvious reasons, cannot control that, but you will be happy to know that many states also support forms of Free File, although are often more restrictive. But with that said, many state taxes are just percentages of what your federal tax liability is so they are often half a page long forms for most people. And regardless of all of that, and regardless of income, if you have a typical 1040ez income, you can go down to the public library, get the form which is literally two pages and fill it out and mail it in. It also takes about 15 minutes and in 100% absolutely free. Well, you have to purchase a stamp. Seriously, do you not realize this has been the case forever? Are you located in the US? And if you make over $66k a year? Come on, you can afford $50.
- jppope 8y ago
  So these (https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/) are all still companies loading their site up with dark UI patterns so that people end up paying money to file their taxes. And sending in the forms via mail has always been free. ...I don't understand what possible value you believe the American public gets by paying companies money to do something that the IRS could/should be offering for free?(not meant to be curt... just trying to understand your perceived value proposition) What is wrong with an electronic filing system offered by the IRS without a charge?

astazangasta 8y ago

1) Because the IRS can provide it to taxpayers for free. Of course they have the expertise. They are the ones who review the damn filings. The IRS should really just prepare everyone's tax return for free automatically using your submitted documents, then provide you the opportunity to approve or correct your filing. This would save everyone a huge amount of money and time (aka money). It would be a, you know, "public service", the thing governments are supposed to do.

ddlatham 8y ago

Upvoted. 1) I'd like the IRS to at least have a role, since the IRS is the only one who has a copy of all my tax information provided by employers, banks, brokerages, etc. They have a unique role in that they can pre-fill all the information, where someone like Intuit cannot. However, an opportunity where they simply provided that information to a third party with my permission could also be an interesting model. I haven't seen any exploration of that. 2) California, at least, already provides this service. But few use it because the federal government doesn't. If the federal government stepped up, many states would follow. I believe that the IRS providing it like most of the rest of the world would be a big step forward, but would be open to a role for private industry too.

webdevatlurk 8y ago

> Why would you want the IRS to duplicate this effort and compete with these companies? Is tax collection not a function of the government? I'd rather my taxes fund a free, easy tax filing system than pay fees to rent seeking middle men. Those fees are just an inflated tax by another name. We should be eliminating those kinds of taxes, not entrenching them. > If they do it in-house, do they even have the expertise? Government websites and software have a reputation for being ugly, slow, broken and poorly designed. Government is also capable of building good tools. Two organizations that have done good work and could conceivably work with the IRS are: - https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ - https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/ I'm also pretty sure the IRS has plenty of expertise around the filing of federal tax returns. > Everyone needs to file state taxes anyway. I don't see your point? Everyone will continue to file their state taxes separately, electing to use or not use available tools, as they always have.

lhorie 8y ago

> paid for by tax dollars You make it sound like that's a bad thing. If federal taxes don't go towards things that _the entire country's population_ could use, then, why are there taxes in the first place again? If you've got a complex tax situation that TurboTax asks you to file by mail, or even if you just want to file yourself, you have to go to - you guessed it - the IRS' website to get all the forms and instructions. The IRS already has to navigate all that complexity to put out all these forms and instructions for every field, tax table, eligibility flow charts etc and the government certainly employs developers[1] already. The government also has to budget for printing millions of 1040 pamphlets for the entire country, and they somehow are able to come up with budget for things like that Trump wall, so surely coming up with budget to implement electronic filing isn't a question of money waste? [1] https://v2.designsystem.digital.gov/components/ https://v2.designsystem.digital.gov/components/