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> The bigger the refund, the happier the customer and the more likely they are to come back next year and give you more money. Doubt it. We're talking 1040EZ f

> The bigger the refund, the happier the customer and the more likely they are to come back next year and give you more money. Doubt it. We're talking 1040EZ filings by people in the 22% and lower tax brackets, not complex itemizations typical of 24%+ tax bracket filers. The 5-digit PIN from the previous year's e-filing that's required if you want to expediently e-file this year is enough. Most people aren't going to remember that detail, but the e-filing service you used last year never forgot and they'll gladly auto-fill that block for you as a repeat customer.

rayiner 8y ago
The 22% tax bracket goes well above the median income. Meanwhile, in 2010 less than 15% of people filed the 1040ez.
- metaphor 8y ago
  Bottom end of 22% tax bracket is ~$43k/annum based on 2019 Notice 1036...that's a $23k margin before hitting the $66k AGI threshold for free file offerings. That number is more like ~25mil, or just over 18% in 2017; +4.6% over previous year[1]. EDIT: I suppose I should probably ask what point you were trying to make? I didn't quite track where you were going with all that. [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17in01pl.xls https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17in01pl.xls
lightedman 8y ago
1040EZ was dead as of this year. Have you filed your taxes?
vonmoltke 8y ago
> The 5-digit PIN from the previous year's e-filing that's required if you want to expediently e-file this year is enough. Most people aren't going to remember that detail, but the e-filing service you used last year never forgot and they'll gladly auto-fill that block for you as a repeat customer. I was not asked for such a thing, and used a different preparer this year. I was asked to set a PIN for 2018, but I have never had to use a PIN I previously set. I have always been asked for the prior year's AGI for verification. What software asked you for a prior year's PIN to file this year?
- metaphor 8y ago
  There're at least 12 private companies listed by the IRS who offer some form of free filing service[1]. Direct from the horse's mouth[2] (my emphasis added): > When self-preparing your taxes and filing electronically, you must sign and validate your electronic tax return by entering your prior-year Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) or your prior-year Self-Select PIN. To be sure, a filer's prior-year AGI would serve the purpose almost[3] as well. It doesn't even matter what "code" is actually required of the filer, only that one is required at all for the convenience of e-filing. The point is it just needs to be something arbitrary enough for free filers to easily misplace record of but is routinely captured as yet another database entry by service providers. That's how repeat customers at the bottom end of the economic ladder are maintained...none of this "maximizing returns" feel good theory that the parent spoke of. [1] https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ [2] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-request https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-reques... [3] maintaining record of prior-year AGI has utility beyond just tax returns--e.g. applying for benefits and/or services which are limited to people below certain income thresholds--but the self-select PIN is truly arbitrary and serves no other purpose, so my gut feeling is it's a more effective mechanism
  - vonmoltke 8y ago
    > To be sure, a filer's prior-year AGI would serve the purpose almost[3] as well. It doesn't even matter what "code" is actually required of the filer, only that one is required at all for the convenience of e-filing. It matters to your statement, which is wrong as you made it. It matters whether the "code" needed is something the taxpayer made up for this one specific purpose or is a number readily available on the form they are supposed to print and file, and can thus easily retrieve. > maintaining record of prior-year AGI has utility beyond just tax returns Everyone should be retaining at least three prior years of tax returns, so anything that helps prod them in that direction is a good thing. > but the self-select PIN is truly arbitrary and serves no other purpose, so my gut feeling is it's a more effective mechanism More effective mechanism for what? I personally think they should just ditch the PIN entirely and rely solely on AGI, for the reason I stated above.

rayiner 8y ago

The 22% tax bracket goes well above the median income. Meanwhile, in 2010 less than 15% of people filed the 1040ez.

metaphor 8y ago
Bottom end of 22% tax bracket is ~$43k/annum based on 2019 Notice 1036...that's a $23k margin before hitting the $66k AGI threshold for free file offerings. That number is more like ~25mil, or just over 18% in 2017; +4.6% over previous year[1]. EDIT: I suppose I should probably ask what point you were trying to make? I didn't quite track where you were going with all that. [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17in01pl.xls https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17in01pl.xls

lightedman 8y ago

1040EZ was dead as of this year. Have you filed your taxes?

vonmoltke 8y ago

> The 5-digit PIN from the previous year's e-filing that's required if you want to expediently e-file this year is enough. Most people aren't going to remember that detail, but the e-filing service you used last year never forgot and they'll gladly auto-fill that block for you as a repeat customer. I was not asked for such a thing, and used a different preparer this year. I was asked to set a PIN for 2018, but I have never had to use a PIN I previously set. I have always been asked for the prior year's AGI for verification. What software asked you for a prior year's PIN to file this year?

metaphor 8y ago
There're at least 12 private companies listed by the IRS who offer some form of free filing service[1]. Direct from the horse's mouth[2] (my emphasis added): > When self-preparing your taxes and filing electronically, you must sign and validate your electronic tax return by entering your prior-year Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) or your prior-year Self-Select PIN. To be sure, a filer's prior-year AGI would serve the purpose almost[3] as well. It doesn't even matter what "code" is actually required of the filer, only that one is required at all for the convenience of e-filing. The point is it just needs to be something arbitrary enough for free filers to easily misplace record of but is routinely captured as yet another database entry by service providers. That's how repeat customers at the bottom end of the economic ladder are maintained...none of this "maximizing returns" feel good theory that the parent spoke of. [1] https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/ [2] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-request https://www.irs.gov/individuals/electronic-filing-pin-reques... [3] maintaining record of prior-year AGI has utility beyond just tax returns--e.g. applying for benefits and/or services which are limited to people below certain income thresholds--but the self-select PIN is truly arbitrary and serves no other purpose, so my gut feeling is it's a more effective mechanism
- vonmoltke 8y ago
  > To be sure, a filer's prior-year AGI would serve the purpose almost[3] as well. It doesn't even matter what "code" is actually required of the filer, only that one is required at all for the convenience of e-filing. It matters to your statement, which is wrong as you made it. It matters whether the "code" needed is something the taxpayer made up for this one specific purpose or is a number readily available on the form they are supposed to print and file, and can thus easily retrieve. > maintaining record of prior-year AGI has utility beyond just tax returns Everyone should be retaining at least three prior years of tax returns, so anything that helps prod them in that direction is a good thing. > but the self-select PIN is truly arbitrary and serves no other purpose, so my gut feeling is it's a more effective mechanism More effective mechanism for what? I personally think they should just ditch the PIN entirely and rely solely on AGI, for the reason I stated above.