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Interesting. The new design makes it seem like they're trying to get away from the political stigma of Helvetica, while also kind of poking fun at it. Whereas t

Interesting. The new design makes it seem like they're trying to get away from the political stigma of Helvetica, while also kind of poking fun at it. Whereas the idea of Helvetica was to evoke things like openness, transparency, neutrality, naturalness, etc., the new typeface strikes me as being much more opinionated, but in a purposely understated sort of way. In a lot of ways it really looks like someone took the core ideologies of modern third-places and distilled them into a visual type system, which maybe says something about the privatization of formerly public spaces and infrastructure over the past 50+ years.

mc32 8y ago
But it also adds flexibility with the alternate glyphs, so in a way, less opinionated.
yodon 8y ago
I love that I have no idea whether that second paragraph is a real analysis or one making fun of font nerds.
- Alex3917 8y ago
  I mean if you watch the documentary Helvetica they do a pretty good job of explaining both the political statement the typeface was trying to make, the backlash against it as it was adopted/hijacked by corporations, and then the post-backlash period where we are now. If you look at the new typeface it's clearly designed primarily for the needs of consumer products and advertising. They could have instead created a typeface that was purposely designed to look bad on consumer products and in advertising, but that's not the direction they went in. That's not an accident, it was a deliberate design decision. Whereas the goal of the original typeface was to create a better society, the goal of the new one is basically to make it onto a Starbucks cup. It's not even a subtle difference, even though it's supposedly just an updated typeface the two are really night and day.
  - yodon 8y ago
    Yes, Helvetica is truly a joy to watch - I mean that genuinely - and thank you for the explanation of your analysis
  - exolymph 8y ago
    > the political statement the typeface was trying to make Hmm, I think that a typeface is possibly the least effective way to make a political statement. Approximately zero people looking at it will impute a political message.
    - byproxy 8y ago
      That's a good approximate, but I feel these kinds of "statements" are for a select few, and they'll have fun arguing the message's merits or lack-thereof. The rest of the world will continue on with these decisions of taste-makers serving as little more than a slight hum to the harmony of their lives.
    - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
      I do think there are some fonts that develop into having certain associations and meanings; I can't see how a font can be designed to have that association beforehand, but then, I'm not a designer or psychologist. But there's a definite cultural meaning to certain fonts; what springs to mind is Impact (memes), comic sans (trolling / badly designed websites / your aunt's emails), and "gothic" fonts (nazis) (https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4 https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4). I can imagine that font designers can take these fonts and their cultural associations and craft something new that evokes these.
      - atoav 8y ago
        Interestingly enough the Nazis actually tried to get rid of that old German typeface and were all for sans fonts. But these old German typeface was still so dominant during their regime, that in hindsight people (including neo Nazis) started connecting it with Nazis.
    - qubex 8y ago

mc32 8y ago

But it also adds flexibility with the alternate glyphs, so in a way, less opinionated.

yodon 8y ago

I love that I have no idea whether that second paragraph is a real analysis or one making fun of font nerds.

Alex3917 8y ago
I mean if you watch the documentary Helvetica they do a pretty good job of explaining both the political statement the typeface was trying to make, the backlash against it as it was adopted/hijacked by corporations, and then the post-backlash period where we are now. If you look at the new typeface it's clearly designed primarily for the needs of consumer products and advertising. They could have instead created a typeface that was purposely designed to look bad on consumer products and in advertising, but that's not the direction they went in. That's not an accident, it was a deliberate design decision. Whereas the goal of the original typeface was to create a better society, the goal of the new one is basically to make it onto a Starbucks cup. It's not even a subtle difference, even though it's supposedly just an updated typeface the two are really night and day.
- yodon 8y ago
  Yes, Helvetica is truly a joy to watch - I mean that genuinely - and thank you for the explanation of your analysis
- exolymph 8y ago
  > the political statement the typeface was trying to make Hmm, I think that a typeface is possibly the least effective way to make a political statement. Approximately zero people looking at it will impute a political message.
  - byproxy 8y ago
    That's a good approximate, but I feel these kinds of "statements" are for a select few, and they'll have fun arguing the message's merits or lack-thereof. The rest of the world will continue on with these decisions of taste-makers serving as little more than a slight hum to the harmony of their lives.
  - Cthulhu_ 8y ago
    I do think there are some fonts that develop into having certain associations and meanings; I can't see how a font can be designed to have that association beforehand, but then, I'm not a designer or psychologist. But there's a definite cultural meaning to certain fonts; what springs to mind is Impact (memes), comic sans (trolling / badly designed websites / your aunt's emails), and "gothic" fonts (nazis) (https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4 https://www.dafont.com/mtheme.php?id=4). I can imagine that font designers can take these fonts and their cultural associations and craft something new that evokes these.
    - atoav 8y ago
      Interestingly enough the Nazis actually tried to get rid of that old German typeface and were all for sans fonts. But these old German typeface was still so dominant during their regime, that in hindsight people (including neo Nazis) started connecting it with Nazis.
  - qubex 8y ago