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> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better? It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare. Most non-America

> Does anyone seriously believe that the IRS would do better? It’s interesting to see the same arguments resurface as they do for healthcare. Most non-Americans here live in countries where salaried employees have almost zero contact with the country’s ex agency. No returns, no filing, it all just magically happens behind the scenes. So it’s kinda weird to hear Americans say “that’s impossible! How can you trust government?!”. The worst thing about American exceptionalism is that it blinkers Americans from things that are not only done better by some other countries, but also the things that literally every other rich country in the world manages.

zdragnar 8y ago
To be fair, American exceptionalism has little to do with the glories of our IRS. Our tax code is also absurdly complicated- https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-us-tax-code-2014-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-u... as an example. As I've said elsewhere, some of the most significant opposition to the IRS pre-filing taxes is trusting that it operates in good faith - or at least competently - and appropriate applies all deductions that a person is eligible for. Simplifying the tax code would go a long, long way to alleviating most people's concerns, I think.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  that concern is simply not valid. The IRS would send you a proposed return and you could make whatever changes you want to make.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    And many people will still go to a private tax service to verify that everything that could be accounted for is accounted for. The concern isn't that people wouldn't be able to make changes, the concern is that people would naively accept whatever they are told they should get back, even if that isn't the case. To be fair though, I think this is somewhat less of an issue after President Trump's tax reforms; with the doubling of the standard deduction, it's become less fruitful for most people to attempt to itemize their deductions.
abraae 8y ago
American tax is significantly more complex than other countries - I would guess more than any other country - due to challenges such as county + state + federal taxes and interactions between them. Source: worked on a payroll system that had to be heavily rearchitected when we tried to deploy it in the US.
- peteretep 8y ago
  > American tax is significantly more complex than other countries Yes > such as county + state + federal Plenty of countries with this, aren’t there? Germany, Australia, Switzerland, etc?

zdragnar 8y ago

To be fair, American exceptionalism has little to do with the glories of our IRS. Our tax code is also absurdly complicated- https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-us-tax-code-2014-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/2014-how-many-pages-in-the-u... as an example. As I've said elsewhere, some of the most significant opposition to the IRS pre-filing taxes is trusting that it operates in good faith - or at least competently - and appropriate applies all deductions that a person is eligible for. Simplifying the tax code would go a long, long way to alleviating most people's concerns, I think.

maxxxxx 8y ago
that concern is simply not valid. The IRS would send you a proposed return and you could make whatever changes you want to make.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  And many people will still go to a private tax service to verify that everything that could be accounted for is accounted for. The concern isn't that people wouldn't be able to make changes, the concern is that people would naively accept whatever they are told they should get back, even if that isn't the case. To be fair though, I think this is somewhat less of an issue after President Trump's tax reforms; with the doubling of the standard deduction, it's become less fruitful for most people to attempt to itemize their deductions.

abraae 8y ago

American tax is significantly more complex than other countries - I would guess more than any other country - due to challenges such as county + state + federal taxes and interactions between them. Source: worked on a payroll system that had to be heavily rearchitected when we tried to deploy it in the US.

peteretep 8y ago
> American tax is significantly more complex than other countries Yes > such as county + state + federal Plenty of countries with this, aren’t there? Germany, Australia, Switzerland, etc?