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Chiming in as someone with fairly strong visual imagery (I think...) I think there are generally a variety of ways things can "appear". However it's never the

by l_t 8y ago

Chiming in as someone with fairly strong visual imagery (I think...) I think there are generally a variety of ways things can "appear". However it's never the same as true AR. For example, with true AR, you could be fooled into seeing something that's not there. But I can't fool myself (deliberately) with my own mental images. Having said that, it subjectively feels like the stimulus originates in a different part of the brain at a low level, but eventually both "mental visual" and "true visual" stimulus are unified to some degree. Like yes, I can visualize a ball in my hand, but it'll always be in a different layer from my actual visual input of my hand. Like two different layers in Photoshop. Also, beyond the AR concept, one of my favored types of visualizations is what I call "playing myself a movie". It's pretty much what you would imagine, basically watching a movie with my mind's eye. I can watch the movie and look at "real things" at the same time. Works great for falling asleep as well. I agree, it's a super fascinating discussion.

monomyth 8y ago
That’s until you hit trance states of consciousness. Then perception of “reality” changes quite a bit.
- l_t 8y ago
  My strongest experience of something like this was always when half-asleep on public transit, commuting home in the evening. Those rare times, I was indeed "tricked" by what amounted to a lucid dream. I knew I was on a bus, because the sounds and feelings maintained continuity with reality. But the details I saw were completely made up. My eyes were closed, I think, but it didn't feel like that was connected to my ability to see. Because of the swaying motion of the bus, I knew where we were, and the scene I was "watching" was based on that. I was able to move, and think normally about my day, and did not notice that I had fallen asleep. Of course, I eventually woke up. Reality was significantly less pleasant than my dream. The dream bus had been much less crowded, and clean, and generally more atmospheric and warm-toned, even the sunlight. Does that sound similar to what you meant by trance consciousness?
azlen 8y ago
I've never had strong visual imagery, but recently I've been practicing visualizing mental images as well as attempting (and failing) to overlay those images over my vision. Whenever I do visualize images, they feel as if they are positioned behind just my forehead or at the top of my head. Sometimes I imagine this as a sort of "canvas" on which I can imagine or draw images. With your example of visualizing a ball, the ball and my hand can be on the same "layer" on this canvas, but do not affect my vision at all. What I find interesting is that I can actually move this canvas around spatially or create new ones. On each canvas for example, I can imagine a different rotating object. As well, each canvas retains its image as a form of short-term memory. So I can switch focus between different imagined images or compositions. I'm curious - with more practice - how mental imagery can aid in memory. Recently I learned a song in a language I do not understand, and the words of the song would appear on my mind's "canvas" almost like karaoke or like reading off imaginary flashcards... It's always interesting to read about how other people's experiences are similar or different to my own. The minds eye is endlessly interesting.
- tylerjwilk00 8y ago
  I have a very similar experience as you. I like your description using multiple canvases. Similarly, I described them as PIPs (Picture In Picture) but off screen canvases may be a better analogy.
ncallaway 8y ago
> Like yes, I can visualize a ball in my hand, but it'll always be in a different layer from my actual visual input of my hand. Like two different layers in Photoshop. This blows me away. It's absolutely stunning to me. Really? That's so freakin' cool!
- red75prime 8y ago
  Yeah, differences are astounding. I, for example, can imagine a ball in my hand, but there's just, er, an idea of a ball in my hand, no colors, no textures, no outline, just a feeling where it is and vague imaginary weight. I have to distract from looking at my hand, if I try to imagine the ball in more details.

by l_t 8y ago

monomyth 8y ago

That’s until you hit trance states of consciousness. Then perception of “reality” changes quite a bit.

l_t 8y ago
My strongest experience of something like this was always when half-asleep on public transit, commuting home in the evening. Those rare times, I was indeed "tricked" by what amounted to a lucid dream. I knew I was on a bus, because the sounds and feelings maintained continuity with reality. But the details I saw were completely made up. My eyes were closed, I think, but it didn't feel like that was connected to my ability to see. Because of the swaying motion of the bus, I knew where we were, and the scene I was "watching" was based on that. I was able to move, and think normally about my day, and did not notice that I had fallen asleep. Of course, I eventually woke up. Reality was significantly less pleasant than my dream. The dream bus had been much less crowded, and clean, and generally more atmospheric and warm-toned, even the sunlight. Does that sound similar to what you meant by trance consciousness?

azlen 8y ago

I've never had strong visual imagery, but recently I've been practicing visualizing mental images as well as attempting (and failing) to overlay those images over my vision. Whenever I do visualize images, they feel as if they are positioned behind just my forehead or at the top of my head. Sometimes I imagine this as a sort of "canvas" on which I can imagine or draw images. With your example of visualizing a ball, the ball and my hand can be on the same "layer" on this canvas, but do not affect my vision at all. What I find interesting is that I can actually move this canvas around spatially or create new ones. On each canvas for example, I can imagine a different rotating object. As well, each canvas retains its image as a form of short-term memory. So I can switch focus between different imagined images or compositions. I'm curious - with more practice - how mental imagery can aid in memory. Recently I learned a song in a language I do not understand, and the words of the song would appear on my mind's "canvas" almost like karaoke or like reading off imaginary flashcards... It's always interesting to read about how other people's experiences are similar or different to my own. The minds eye is endlessly interesting.

tylerjwilk00 8y ago
I have a very similar experience as you. I like your description using multiple canvases. Similarly, I described them as PIPs (Picture In Picture) but off screen canvases may be a better analogy.

ncallaway 8y ago

> Like yes, I can visualize a ball in my hand, but it'll always be in a different layer from my actual visual input of my hand. Like two different layers in Photoshop. This blows me away. It's absolutely stunning to me. Really? That's so freakin' cool!

red75prime 8y ago
Yeah, differences are astounding. I, for example, can imagine a ball in my hand, but there's just, er, an idea of a ball in my hand, no colors, no textures, no outline, just a feeling where it is and vague imaginary weight. I have to distract from looking at my hand, if I try to imagine the ball in more details.