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It works pretty much this way in my country too. 'Standards Australia' is a body who charges for PDFs of various codes (including those which are thinly layered

It works pretty much this way in my country too. 'Standards Australia' is a body who charges for PDFs of various codes (including those which are thinly layered services over ISO standards)[0]. Local and state governments refer to those AS 'standards' for compliance. Yes, it's a self referential ponzi scheme forcing citizens to pay to be adherent to laws. It should be free. INAL however, I think the main loophole that allows it to exist is that since it's a private company (albeit labelled as a non-profit) it has 'copyright' on its publications, which is like the 'mechanical copyright' that the music /video industry has on CDs add DVDs, which is independent to the 'artistic copyright'. Many of our 'governing bodies' operate that this way: there's the law as written, and then there's the implementation of said law (tax office, Medicare, workers compensation, etc) in which, over time, become the arbitrator of the law -- which is a very different thing. [0] https://www.standards.org.au/search-for-a-standard https://www.standards.org.au/search-for-a-standard

hug 8y ago
One of the most interesting things about the AS system, to my mind, comes from a case where a motorcyclist was fined for attaching a helmet cam -- AS1698 does not permit modification of helmets. (Whether or not attaching something via a sticker is modifying the helmet is still up for grabs.) Regardless, he fought his case up to the county court and won, based on the argument that it was not sensible to expect the public to adhere to an AS that was not publicly available. https://www.mauriceblackburn.com.au/about/media-centre/media-statements/2016/maurice-blackburn-wins-helmet-camera-appeal-in-county-court/ https://www.mauriceblackburn.com.au/about/media-centre/media...
- hermitdev 8y ago
  > Thus from the four preceding articles [of Question 90], the definition of law may be gathered; and it is nothing else than an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has care of the community, and promulgated. - St Thomas Aquinas [1] The key word I want to bring attention from that quote is promulgated, or made known. If law can be copyrighted by a private entity, by definition it cannot be universally promulgated and should not be considered a valid law. Otherwise, we will end up with private, unknown, laws that will be pulled out of nowhere when convenient. The text of law must be universally accessible to all (at least within a jurisdiction) or the law should be deemed invalid. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_on_Law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_on_Law
  - sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
    It's worrying how politicians are ignorant of such basic things. Or maybe they act like they ignore them.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    And even 3000 years before Aquinas: "Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared God, to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak; so that I should rule over the black-headed people like Shamash, and enlighten the land, to further the well-being of mankind. ... That the strong might not injure the weak, in order to protect the widows and orphans, I have in Babylon the city where Anu and Bel raise high their head, in E-Sagil, the Temple, whose foundations stand firm as heaven and earth, in order to bespeak justice in the land, to settle all disputes, and heal all injuries, set up these my precious words, written upon my memorial stone, before the image of me, as king of righteousness. ... let the oppressed, who has a case at law, come and stand before this my image as king of righteousness; let him read the inscription, and understand my precious words: the inscription will explain his case to him."
paulstovell 8y ago
Yes, and it gets wierder because the standards aren’t law (or they would be public), but the law can require work to be done according to the standard. Most of the standards were developed with tax dollars too. It takes power away from homeowners when you can’t question the work of a tradesman because you can’t get your own copy of the standards. It also makes it hard for owner-builders like me who are required to follow the standards but don’t really want to pay for them.

hug 8y ago

One of the most interesting things about the AS system, to my mind, comes from a case where a motorcyclist was fined for attaching a helmet cam -- AS1698 does not permit modification of helmets. (Whether or not attaching something via a sticker is modifying the helmet is still up for grabs.) Regardless, he fought his case up to the county court and won, based on the argument that it was not sensible to expect the public to adhere to an AS that was not publicly available. https://www.mauriceblackburn.com.au/about/media-centre/media-statements/2016/maurice-blackburn-wins-helmet-camera-appeal-in-county-court/ https://www.mauriceblackburn.com.au/about/media-centre/media...

hermitdev 8y ago
> Thus from the four preceding articles [of Question 90], the definition of law may be gathered; and it is nothing else than an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has care of the community, and promulgated. - St Thomas Aquinas [1] The key word I want to bring attention from that quote is promulgated, or made known. If law can be copyrighted by a private entity, by definition it cannot be universally promulgated and should not be considered a valid law. Otherwise, we will end up with private, unknown, laws that will be pulled out of nowhere when convenient. The text of law must be universally accessible to all (at least within a jurisdiction) or the law should be deemed invalid. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_on_Law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatise_on_Law
- sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
  It's worrying how politicians are ignorant of such basic things. Or maybe they act like they ignore them.
- int_19h 8y ago
  And even 3000 years before Aquinas: "Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared God, to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak; so that I should rule over the black-headed people like Shamash, and enlighten the land, to further the well-being of mankind. ... That the strong might not injure the weak, in order to protect the widows and orphans, I have in Babylon the city where Anu and Bel raise high their head, in E-Sagil, the Temple, whose foundations stand firm as heaven and earth, in order to bespeak justice in the land, to settle all disputes, and heal all injuries, set up these my precious words, written upon my memorial stone, before the image of me, as king of righteousness. ... let the oppressed, who has a case at law, come and stand before this my image as king of righteousness; let him read the inscription, and understand my precious words: the inscription will explain his case to him."

paulstovell 8y ago

Yes, and it gets wierder because the standards aren’t law (or they would be public), but the law can require work to be done according to the standard. Most of the standards were developed with tax dollars too. It takes power away from homeowners when you can’t question the work of a tradesman because you can’t get your own copy of the standards. It also makes it hard for owner-builders like me who are required to follow the standards but don’t really want to pay for them.