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None of those three seem to fit my experience of visualising things. I can conjure the image of a triangle in my mind with my eyes open without any difficulty,

None of those three seem to fit my experience of visualising things. I can conjure the image of a triangle in my mind with my eyes open without any difficulty, I can move it around, I can change its colour, I can make it shrink and grow; but it's not superimposed on what I'm looking at. It's as if I had a second pair of eyes looking at a scene entirely controlled my my imagination. Isn't that what the "mind's eye" is?

garmain 8y ago
My experience is very similar to yours
theoh 8y ago
The interpretation of "superimposed" is important here. It doesn't mean that the imaginary image and the real image are merged like titles composited onto a TV screen.
- barrucadu 8y ago
  Reading your other comment, I think I sort of agree with it. I can look at a sheet of paper and imagine something on it, and then draw that (if it's simple enough), but my ability to visualise something precisely enough to draw it rapidly degrades as the image gets more complex. On the other hand, if I'm not intentionally projecting the image onto something, my visual imagination doesn't occupy the same space as my visual field at all. If anything it's "above" or maybe "inside" my head. I can then visualise an almost arbitrarily complex image, but if I try to focus on the details they shift: I'm "seeing" the whole but not the parts.
haxiomic 8y ago
I love hearing how other people's imagination functions. Your experience sounds similar to mine, but I feel like there's two distinct levels to the mind's eye. There's the level you describe, where it doesn't feel like you're seeing through your real eyes but I find it's also possible to have images that feel very much like they're coming in through your eyes – almost as if there's a tap on the optic nerve. For me these images are for the most part only visible with my eyes closed and most visible when falling asleep. I also cannot precisely control them in the same way I can instantly imagine a shape, instead I have to influence them indirectly bit by bit with lots of effort (but I usually get there – I'm practising to see if it can become easier). These images can be much more vivid, they're usually in full color and animated, but with a small field of view. It looks a bit like having a small CRT-style color TV at the center of my vision and it feels like watching a dream while you're awake. To go into more detail on the process: when I close my eyes I don't see black but a sort of vague mix of colored blobs, a little bit like this but darker [0]. As I start to think, I pick out patterns in the blobs that look like the thing I'm trying to imaging, until eventually they sort of become full images that evolve on their own. They become vivid enough that I feel like the muscles in my eyes are straining to try to focus on them. It's not that dissimilar to those deep-dream images (but much less creepy!). Is this something that happens for you too? [0] https://image.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/colored-noise-grunge-rusty-precious-450w-552311992.jpg https://image.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/colored-no...
- cartoonfoxes 8y ago
  I can also attest to this two-level phenomenon. > These images can be much more vivid, they're usually in full color and animated, but with a small field of view. It looks a bit like having a small CRT-style color TV at the center of my vision and it feels like watching a dream while you're awake. This almost exactly. I have experienced this a handful of times on waking. A stream of photoreal content, in a small round field of view in the center of my vision. The images often have fewer colors than real life, and some kind of artifact not unlike "scanlines" from a CRT. So far, they're also distinctly 2D. It's like watching broadcast from the part of my brain that's still dreaming, through my eyes. It's what I expect retinal projection looks like. As opposed to the "back buffer" of normal visualization or daydreaming, there are separate "front buffer" phenomenon that are as close to hallucinations as I've ever experienced. If they happened at any time other than waking or falling asleep, I would drive myself straight to the ER.
swat535 8y ago
To be honest I'm really surprised about this as well, like you I have no trouble imagining a triangle, changing it's form even having it animate to a different shape, multiply etc.. I always thought everyone could do this. It makes me realize how far we are from grasping the true depth our brain abilities. This is also why creating a true is very far. We must first understand, then replicate.

garmain 8y ago

My experience is very similar to yours

theoh 8y ago

The interpretation of "superimposed" is important here. It doesn't mean that the imaginary image and the real image are merged like titles composited onto a TV screen.

barrucadu 8y ago
Reading your other comment, I think I sort of agree with it. I can look at a sheet of paper and imagine something on it, and then draw that (if it's simple enough), but my ability to visualise something precisely enough to draw it rapidly degrades as the image gets more complex. On the other hand, if I'm not intentionally projecting the image onto something, my visual imagination doesn't occupy the same space as my visual field at all. If anything it's "above" or maybe "inside" my head. I can then visualise an almost arbitrarily complex image, but if I try to focus on the details they shift: I'm "seeing" the whole but not the parts.

haxiomic 8y ago

I love hearing how other people's imagination functions. Your experience sounds similar to mine, but I feel like there's two distinct levels to the mind's eye. There's the level you describe, where it doesn't feel like you're seeing through your real eyes but I find it's also possible to have images that feel very much like they're coming in through your eyes – almost as if there's a tap on the optic nerve. For me these images are for the most part only visible with my eyes closed and most visible when falling asleep. I also cannot precisely control them in the same way I can instantly imagine a shape, instead I have to influence them indirectly bit by bit with lots of effort (but I usually get there – I'm practising to see if it can become easier). These images can be much more vivid, they're usually in full color and animated, but with a small field of view. It looks a bit like having a small CRT-style color TV at the center of my vision and it feels like watching a dream while you're awake. To go into more detail on the process: when I close my eyes I don't see black but a sort of vague mix of colored blobs, a little bit like this but darker [0]. As I start to think, I pick out patterns in the blobs that look like the thing I'm trying to imaging, until eventually they sort of become full images that evolve on their own. They become vivid enough that I feel like the muscles in my eyes are straining to try to focus on them. It's not that dissimilar to those deep-dream images (but much less creepy!). Is this something that happens for you too? [0] https://image.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/colored-noise-grunge-rusty-precious-450w-552311992.jpg https://image.shutterstock.com/image-illustration/colored-no...

cartoonfoxes 8y ago
I can also attest to this two-level phenomenon. > These images can be much more vivid, they're usually in full color and animated, but with a small field of view. It looks a bit like having a small CRT-style color TV at the center of my vision and it feels like watching a dream while you're awake. This almost exactly. I have experienced this a handful of times on waking. A stream of photoreal content, in a small round field of view in the center of my vision. The images often have fewer colors than real life, and some kind of artifact not unlike "scanlines" from a CRT. So far, they're also distinctly 2D. It's like watching broadcast from the part of my brain that's still dreaming, through my eyes. It's what I expect retinal projection looks like. As opposed to the "back buffer" of normal visualization or daydreaming, there are separate "front buffer" phenomenon that are as close to hallucinations as I've ever experienced. If they happened at any time other than waking or falling asleep, I would drive myself straight to the ER.

swat535 8y ago

To be honest I'm really surprised about this as well, like you I have no trouble imagining a triangle, changing it's form even having it animate to a different shape, multiply etc.. I always thought everyone could do this. It makes me realize how far we are from grasping the true depth our brain abilities. This is also why creating a true is very far. We must first understand, then replicate.