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It's not like we have been wrong about this a hundred and twenty-three times before. In 2014, "science" was telling us for sure that the big lakes would go dry

by tucaz 8y ago

It's not like we have been wrong about this a hundred and twenty-three times before. In 2014, "science" was telling us for sure that the big lakes would go dry in just a few years due to climate change effects [0]. It is 2019 now and the same lakes that were disappearing, less than five years ago, are now reaching record levels [1]. If something is wrong, someone has to do something, right? We can't just sit on our asses and wait. Hey, government! Go do something! [0] - https://thinkprogress.org/the-great-lakes-go-dry-how-one-fifth-of-the-worlds-fresh-water-is-dwindling-away-e9efe2c72891/ https://thinkprogress.org/the-great-lakes-go-dry-how-one-fif... [1] - https://www.weather.gov/mkx/highlakemichiganwaterlevel https://www.weather.gov/mkx/highlakemichiganwaterlevel

mort96 8y ago
From your first link: > Increasingly, scientists believe that climate change is driving the warming waters and setting up a new regime in the Great Lakes that may lead to lower lake levels and a permanently altered shoreline. ... > “The El Niño-driven warmer temperatures are a surrogate for what the future climate might be. The lower lake levels during that time may be a signal of what might be happening under longer term climate change.” I don't see where it says scientists were saying anything for sure, the claim is just that the lower water level "may" be caused by climate change. The truth is that climate is complex and climate models are imperfect; there's a lot we don't know for sure. What we _do_ know for sure, however, is that atmospheric CO2 has a big influence on the earth's climate, that periods of higher levels of CO2 has historically been at the same time as higher temperatures, and that we are seeing actual measurable changes in things like average temperatures. The effects those changes have on any particular lake, wether its water levels will drop due to increased evaporation, or rise due to wetter summers, is hard to say for certain; we can just strive for making ever more accurate predictive models. Also, the graph in your second link isn't loading, so I can't comment specifically on that. > If something is wrong, someone has to do something, right? We can't just sit on our asses and wait. Hey, government! Go do something! Yeah. Other than a revolution, the most realistic way to make sure that happens is to vote for people who care about this stuff, and against e.g people who claim climate change is a hoax.
- tucaz 8y ago
  I don't know who downvoted you, but I upvoted you because I think it's unfair to downvote someone just because they have a different opinion. I have been downvoted too many times before with no explanation so it's just right that I do what I think is right for others. Back to the topic at hand. If you tell me that by giving you the essay backed by scientists the article I provided is missing, will help change your opinion I will hunt it down and provide it to you. > Yeah. Other than a revolution, the most realistic way to make sure that happens is to vote for people who care about this stuff, and against e.g people who claim climate change is a hoax. We don't need a government to do anything or a revolution. We actually need the opposite. Keep the government out of it and you will see how much better our lives will get. Freedom is the path to success.
- tucaz 8y ago
  Here is the link for an article that cites all the relevant sources: https://realclimatescience.com/2019/03/latest-shameless-fraud-from-climate-scientists/ https://realclimatescience.com/2019/03/latest-shameless-frau... ps: please ignore the inflamed content. The sources are good
- jfnixon 8y ago
  "What we _do_ know for sure, however, is that atmospheric CO2 has a big influence on the earth's climate" So what's the Climate Sensitivity, and to what sigma? "and that we are seeing actual measurable changes in things like average temperatures" The absolute best, gold standard temperature measurement network, the USCRN, has seen little warming since it first began measurements back around 2005. 15 years or so is too short to confidently argue trends, but it is getting close. While the US is, what, 2% of the surface area of the globe, surely this result requires some consideration. Check the data yourself: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/ https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/

by tucaz 8y ago

mort96 8y ago

From your first link: > Increasingly, scientists believe that climate change is driving the warming waters and setting up a new regime in the Great Lakes that may lead to lower lake levels and a permanently altered shoreline. ... > “The El Niño-driven warmer temperatures are a surrogate for what the future climate might be. The lower lake levels during that time may be a signal of what might be happening under longer term climate change.” I don't see where it says scientists were saying anything for sure, the claim is just that the lower water level "may" be caused by climate change. The truth is that climate is complex and climate models are imperfect; there's a lot we don't know for sure. What we _do_ know for sure, however, is that atmospheric CO2 has a big influence on the earth's climate, that periods of higher levels of CO2 has historically been at the same time as higher temperatures, and that we are seeing actual measurable changes in things like average temperatures. The effects those changes have on any particular lake, wether its water levels will drop due to increased evaporation, or rise due to wetter summers, is hard to say for certain; we can just strive for making ever more accurate predictive models. Also, the graph in your second link isn't loading, so I can't comment specifically on that. > If something is wrong, someone has to do something, right? We can't just sit on our asses and wait. Hey, government! Go do something! Yeah. Other than a revolution, the most realistic way to make sure that happens is to vote for people who care about this stuff, and against e.g people who claim climate change is a hoax.

tucaz 8y ago
I don't know who downvoted you, but I upvoted you because I think it's unfair to downvote someone just because they have a different opinion. I have been downvoted too many times before with no explanation so it's just right that I do what I think is right for others. Back to the topic at hand. If you tell me that by giving you the essay backed by scientists the article I provided is missing, will help change your opinion I will hunt it down and provide it to you. > Yeah. Other than a revolution, the most realistic way to make sure that happens is to vote for people who care about this stuff, and against e.g people who claim climate change is a hoax. We don't need a government to do anything or a revolution. We actually need the opposite. Keep the government out of it and you will see how much better our lives will get. Freedom is the path to success.
tucaz 8y ago
Here is the link for an article that cites all the relevant sources: https://realclimatescience.com/2019/03/latest-shameless-fraud-from-climate-scientists/ https://realclimatescience.com/2019/03/latest-shameless-frau... ps: please ignore the inflamed content. The sources are good
jfnixon 8y ago
"What we _do_ know for sure, however, is that atmospheric CO2 has a big influence on the earth's climate" So what's the Climate Sensitivity, and to what sigma? "and that we are seeing actual measurable changes in things like average temperatures" The absolute best, gold standard temperature measurement network, the USCRN, has seen little warming since it first began measurements back around 2005. 15 years or so is too short to confidently argue trends, but it is getting close. While the US is, what, 2% of the surface area of the globe, surely this result requires some consideration. Check the data yourself: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/ https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/