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Does Germany have a disproportionate amount of control over the EU? Or are you saying the support is already split and Germany is the deciding factor in this ca

Does Germany have a disproportionate amount of control over the EU? Or are you saying the support is already split and Germany is the deciding factor in this case? Or both?

Mirioron 8y ago
They have a proportionate control over the EU due to their population. Right now the vote went to the council where it needs a qualified majority (I think). This means that 55% of the member states (16) have to vote for it and 65% of the population has to have voted for it.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
tapland 8y ago
Yeah. It pretty much says that the smaller countries changing their votes doesn't have any effect without for example Germany doing the same.
nintendo95 8y ago
Germany is losing that control. It seems peak German influence was during Greek crisis a few years back. Even though IMF and World Bank (sorry, but basically US based and influenced organizations) and the Obama Administration insisted on the Germany taking easier course on Greece crisis -- cutting the debt owned by Greeks -- Germany did it its own way, in opposition to the US demands -- and made a deal where Greece is and will be responsible for repaying all of the 100% debt it owes. Basically they did with the Greece as they pleased in sharp contrast to US open demands and criticism. There was US Secretary of Tresury Mr. Lew travelling to Berlin to speak to their senses, but was ignored. Soo... Now, of course, we can argue if it makes economical sense or not. The point though is that -- and forgive me, but I like playing in my mind, and this is my private little conspiracy theory I have never shared -- Germany seemed to be getting too much power in the EU. By the US standards that is. The US long term policy for EU and Europe is to make sure there is no single one power governing or having influence over the whole continent. So Germany seemed to be braking that rule. And, what happened next? Again, conspiracy theorist here, but good food for thought, just think about it: * Lufthansa airplane is suddenly dropping from the sky * German automanufacturer (VW) turns out to be braking federal laws, with its bosses in the US in prison because of the diesel-gate (VW was picked as one just to make an example. The same issues are with BMWs and Mercedes, but hey we just want to teach a lesson here, not destroy them completely, right?) * Migration crisis. German Chancellor is in no position now, even domestically speaking, to talk about issues with this or that -- fix that big mess with migrants first! That's what Ms Merkel hears from her voters. What EU power? Gone! Just a conspiracy theory. But it kind of fits. Ans looks very American too, i.e. soft power. You know if we want, your cars won't be sold here. If we want you will need to pay up too 2% GDP on military (and your voters hate it), if we want your airlines my look not that safe anymore. If we want we might even destabilize you a bit with huge influx of migrants. So, want to show Greece or some other European countries where they place in the hierarchy is? Well, make sure you discuss is with your overlord first. Again, conspiracy theory. My own private crazy thing. But to answer the question seriously -- German politics is blocked from entering EU stage with serious decisions regarding other countries by the migrant crisis. They are still the biggest and strongest player. But nothing compared to peak power during Greek Debt crisis. They started to feel to powerful and independent, seems all back to "normal".
- noja 8y ago
  wtf is this crap? You're posting basically "any explanation at all" and saying that because it's an explanation, it's what you believe. Anyone could do that for anything
  - nintendo95 8y ago
    not really. This fits. Germany has much less power than it did during the Greek Crisis. It is in no position of throwing EU countries on its knees and destroying them economically anymore. It is in no position of forcing UK to stay in the EU. It is paralyzed by migrants, nice job CIA. No worries in 20-30 years you will see it at the movies. Just remember where you read it first.
    - meruru 8y ago
      "It fits" is a really really low standard to believe something.
      - rjf72 8y ago
        In theory I'd agree with you. In practice so many people hold so many beliefs directly contradicted by completely unambiguous evidence that "it fits" is already a substantial step ahead of many individual's views. But more importantly, it's important that some people can and do hold divergent views rather than everybody all adopting the one most probable view. The reason is that most probable does not mean right, and those who hold divergent views can help progress society by pursuing research in things that others would find to be a waste of time. In cases where they happen to be correct, the introduction of compelling evidence (beyond "it fits") can help reshape our understanding and ultimately change what the 'most probable' view is! A tangent on a tangent, but if people required their views start with the standard of "it fits", I think that'd be one giant leap forward for society as a whole!
angott 8y ago
It is not really about certain countries having more control than others. Germany has the largest population in the EU, and since MEPs apportionment is proportional to population, 99 out of 785 MEPs are German. It's a matter of demographics.
- anbop 8y ago
  MEPs are not directly proportional to population, but degressively so, where the smallest countries have more and the largest countries have less representation than they would on a purely proportional basis. But this is about Sweden's vote in the Council, where each country casts a vote as a country, but that vote is weighted by that country's population.
  - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
    So, if I'm understanding this right, it's in Germany and Sweden's own political interests to significantly increase their populations?
    - anbop 8y ago
      It’s in most countries’ political interests to increase their populations, if they can feed them.
    - twic 8y ago
      And then split into multiple smaller countries in order to get better vote per capita ratios. Of course, an expert conspiracy theorist will note that the more or less culturally and linguistically homogeneous group of about twenty million people living in the north of Europe are already split into a vote-buffing four countries ...
      - pmontra 8y ago
        Three countries. Norway is not part of the EU.
      - 8y ago
subjectHarold 8y ago
Just to note first about the other answers: the EU Parliament is really not very important. Most decisions are made within the Council, which as said elsewhere, votes based on population weight. The Parliament does seem to exercise real power over the Commission but beyond that...not much. Germany is influential because they have a large population i.e. high vote weight in the Council AND they lead a bloc of other nations with similar values (Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.). It is worth noting though: the UK leaving the EU will likely change this (they usually voted with Germany and had a 13% weight of the EU population). Germany will likely retain some moral leadership but, at the very least, a blocking minority vote (35% of population and 4 members) is possible (the most likely scenario is a France/Italy combination with two other minor members).
- 5ExJHrwW 8y ago
  In this case, the parliament and council are equally important as they both have to adopt identical versions of the proposal as per the ordinary legislative procedure.
johnnycab 8y ago
It is fairly easy to calculate the support, after applying the voting rule[1]. Nonetheless, the decision is now in the hands of the EU Council. It is also irrelevant, whether or not there were any mutually beneficial exchanges between the Franco-German alliance to revive this directive, to be passed into law. [1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/...
puzzle 8y ago
It's worse than that: the German press pretty much runs the show.
mtgx 8y ago
Considering Germany is the one that first proposed it, I'd say the chances of that happening are quite slim. You're better off convincing several other countries to vote against it.

Does Germany have a disproportionate amount of control over the EU? Or are you saying the support is already split and Germany is the deciding factor in this case? Or both?

Mirioron 8y ago

They have a proportionate control over the EU due to their population. Right now the vote went to the council where it needs a qualified majority (I think). This means that 55% of the member states (16) have to vote for it and 65% of the population has to have voted for it.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

tapland 8y ago

Yeah. It pretty much says that the smaller countries changing their votes doesn't have any effect without for example Germany doing the same.

nintendo95 8y ago

Germany is losing that control. It seems peak German influence was during Greek crisis a few years back. Even though IMF and World Bank (sorry, but basically US based and influenced organizations) and the Obama Administration insisted on the Germany taking easier course on Greece crisis -- cutting the debt owned by Greeks -- Germany did it its own way, in opposition to the US demands -- and made a deal where Greece is and will be responsible for repaying all of the 100% debt it owes. Basically they did with the Greece as they pleased in sharp contrast to US open demands and criticism. There was US Secretary of Tresury Mr. Lew travelling to Berlin to speak to their senses, but was ignored. Soo... Now, of course, we can argue if it makes economical sense or not. The point though is that -- and forgive me, but I like playing in my mind, and this is my private little conspiracy theory I have never shared -- Germany seemed to be getting too much power in the EU. By the US standards that is. The US long term policy for EU and Europe is to make sure there is no single one power governing or having influence over the whole continent. So Germany seemed to be braking that rule. And, what happened next? Again, conspiracy theorist here, but good food for thought, just think about it: * Lufthansa airplane is suddenly dropping from the sky * German automanufacturer (VW) turns out to be braking federal laws, with its bosses in the US in prison because of the diesel-gate (VW was picked as one just to make an example. The same issues are with BMWs and Mercedes, but hey we just want to teach a lesson here, not destroy them completely, right?) * Migration crisis. German Chancellor is in no position now, even domestically speaking, to talk about issues with this or that -- fix that big mess with migrants first! That's what Ms Merkel hears from her voters. What EU power? Gone! Just a conspiracy theory. But it kind of fits. Ans looks very American too, i.e. soft power. You know if we want, your cars won't be sold here. If we want you will need to pay up too 2% GDP on military (and your voters hate it), if we want your airlines my look not that safe anymore. If we want we might even destabilize you a bit with huge influx of migrants. So, want to show Greece or some other European countries where they place in the hierarchy is? Well, make sure you discuss is with your overlord first. Again, conspiracy theory. My own private crazy thing. But to answer the question seriously -- German politics is blocked from entering EU stage with serious decisions regarding other countries by the migrant crisis. They are still the biggest and strongest player. But nothing compared to peak power during Greek Debt crisis. They started to feel to powerful and independent, seems all back to "normal".

noja 8y ago
wtf is this crap? You're posting basically "any explanation at all" and saying that because it's an explanation, it's what you believe. Anyone could do that for anything
- nintendo95 8y ago
  not really. This fits. Germany has much less power than it did during the Greek Crisis. It is in no position of throwing EU countries on its knees and destroying them economically anymore. It is in no position of forcing UK to stay in the EU. It is paralyzed by migrants, nice job CIA. No worries in 20-30 years you will see it at the movies. Just remember where you read it first.
  - meruru 8y ago
    "It fits" is a really really low standard to believe something.
    - rjf72 8y ago
      In theory I'd agree with you. In practice so many people hold so many beliefs directly contradicted by completely unambiguous evidence that "it fits" is already a substantial step ahead of many individual's views. But more importantly, it's important that some people can and do hold divergent views rather than everybody all adopting the one most probable view. The reason is that most probable does not mean right, and those who hold divergent views can help progress society by pursuing research in things that others would find to be a waste of time. In cases where they happen to be correct, the introduction of compelling evidence (beyond "it fits") can help reshape our understanding and ultimately change what the 'most probable' view is! A tangent on a tangent, but if people required their views start with the standard of "it fits", I think that'd be one giant leap forward for society as a whole!

angott 8y ago

It is not really about certain countries having more control than others. Germany has the largest population in the EU, and since MEPs apportionment is proportional to population, 99 out of 785 MEPs are German. It's a matter of demographics.

anbop 8y ago
MEPs are not directly proportional to population, but degressively so, where the smallest countries have more and the largest countries have less representation than they would on a purely proportional basis. But this is about Sweden's vote in the Council, where each country casts a vote as a country, but that vote is weighted by that country's population.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  So, if I'm understanding this right, it's in Germany and Sweden's own political interests to significantly increase their populations?
  - anbop 8y ago
    It’s in most countries’ political interests to increase their populations, if they can feed them.
  - twic 8y ago
    And then split into multiple smaller countries in order to get better vote per capita ratios. Of course, an expert conspiracy theorist will note that the more or less culturally and linguistically homogeneous group of about twenty million people living in the north of Europe are already split into a vote-buffing four countries ...
    - pmontra 8y ago
      Three countries. Norway is not part of the EU.
    - 8y ago

subjectHarold 8y ago

Just to note first about the other answers: the EU Parliament is really not very important. Most decisions are made within the Council, which as said elsewhere, votes based on population weight. The Parliament does seem to exercise real power over the Commission but beyond that...not much. Germany is influential because they have a large population i.e. high vote weight in the Council AND they lead a bloc of other nations with similar values (Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.). It is worth noting though: the UK leaving the EU will likely change this (they usually voted with Germany and had a 13% weight of the EU population). Germany will likely retain some moral leadership but, at the very least, a blocking minority vote (35% of population and 4 members) is possible (the most likely scenario is a France/Italy combination with two other minor members).

5ExJHrwW 8y ago
In this case, the parliament and council are equally important as they both have to adopt identical versions of the proposal as per the ordinary legislative procedure.

johnnycab 8y ago

It is fairly easy to calculate the support, after applying the voting rule[1]. Nonetheless, the decision is now in the hands of the EU Council. It is also irrelevant, whether or not there were any mutually beneficial exchanges between the Franco-German alliance to revive this directive, to be passed into law. [1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/...

puzzle 8y ago

It's worse than that: the German press pretty much runs the show.

mtgx 8y ago

Considering Germany is the one that first proposed it, I'd say the chances of that happening are quite slim. You're better off convincing several other countries to vote against it.