5 ms·

I don't understand this obsession with attempting to force the idea that men and women are/should be interchangeable. Isn't there something interesting about us

I don't understand this obsession with attempting to force the idea that men and women are/should be interchangeable. Isn't there something interesting about us being different? I know it's a different issue, but this is one of the reasons I think it will be a shame if we have mass immigration and no borders - the rich differences between us will dissolve into one globalised, corporatised, undifferentiable and utterly debased culture. If (as lots of politicians proclaim vociferously and in a suspiciously coordinated manner) diversity is truly our greatest strength why not do something to defend it instead of encouraging its destruction? Who benefits from this dislocation of social and cultural bonds? Certainly not the mass of the population, I would venture.

bgutierrez 8y ago
I imagine that the differences between men and women seem a lot less interesting if you are a woman pursuing a career in STEM and are trying to either improve your spatial reasoning or prove that you are not deficient in it.
claudiawerner 8y ago
> I think it will be a shame if we have mass immigration and no borders - the rich differences between us will dissolve into one globalised, corporatised, undifferentiable and utterly debased culture. I see this a lot and I'm skeptical of the argument's force. Arguably, this is already happening and has almost totally already 'happened' with the expansion of capital (particularly Western capital) and capital's nature as a homogenizing force in which every aspect of society must be commodified and sellable - any use of time which cannot be commodified is therefore useless time in the eyes of capital, and worse, an "opportunity cost". So the culture we are left with around the world is only the culture that could be commodified - that is to say, it is culture that didn't speak out too strongly against this unifying force. I'd argue that capital's indifference to the qualitative aspects differentiating one culture from another leads to a monoculture in the first place. When everyone is selling culture, those same sellers will switch to whatever is the most profitable at the time and abandon whatever they were selling before, even if it was "genuine culture". I'm not saying it happens all the time - some individuals have the nerve to stand up to capital, but few succeed. As a famous German philosopher once said, considered as a process of history, we can't hold these individuals responsible for the society they foster, however much they may try and subjectively raise themselves above them. It doesn't make much sense to analyze the possible cultural effects of an "open borders" policy under the totality of capital - whatever culture looks like (and indeed how people act about it) in a post-capital world will be radically different to how it looks today. What would the pressure for homogenization and commodification be in a world without capital? At first glance, it seems like such a pressure would not exist.
rovolo 8y ago
> if we have mass immigration and no borders - the rich differences between us will dissolve (US centric:) The US had mass migration from Europe around 1900, did the differences between the US and Europe dissolve? Did the Irish Catholics dissolve the differences between Christian sects in the US? Does the proximity to Mexico make Texas less distinct from the rest of the US? Did the introduction of pasta eliminate the desirability of visiting Rome? Culture isn't a conserved resource. New generations invent new culture with the people they know around them. Despite the open borders inside the US, we didn't stop being distinct regions. Did New Yorkers stop being New Yorkers when kids invented Rap?
vajrabum 8y ago
Improving women's ability to solve certain types of school problems by providing tutoring promotes the dislocation of social and cultural bonds? Sheesh.
not_that_noob 8y ago
I mean, mass immigration with no borders is exactly how humans spread out from Africa to populate the world. Seems it’s worked out great for humanity. And speaking as a resident of the Bay Area, I greatly appreciate the diverse people I meet. Not to mention the wide food choices.
Const-me 8y ago
> Who benefits from this dislocation of social and cultural bonds? Good for business for several reasons. Business no longer need to pay person enough to raise a family. When genders or people are completely interchangeable, this puts downwards pressure on salaries, increases supply by increasing mobility. People with dislocated bonds, and people doing work they don't like, are less happy in general. Makes it easier to sell them shiny stuff they don't actually need.
- kaitai 8y ago
  I benefit, as a woman who likes math and has great spatial skills! Sorry y'all are buying stuff to soothe your souls 'cause I'm happier.
hrktb 8y ago
> I don't understand this obsession with attempting to force the idea that men and women are/should be interchangeable. This is not the focus though: reading through, it's more about women having difficulties in a specific task, which then impacted how they did in other courses. The university found a way to help get better at it, and it partly bridged a gap between them and their male counterpart. At no point is it a question of interchangeability or becoming undifferentiable, it's a matter of improving skills.

bgutierrez 8y ago

I imagine that the differences between men and women seem a lot less interesting if you are a woman pursuing a career in STEM and are trying to either improve your spatial reasoning or prove that you are not deficient in it.

claudiawerner 8y ago

> I think it will be a shame if we have mass immigration and no borders - the rich differences between us will dissolve into one globalised, corporatised, undifferentiable and utterly debased culture. I see this a lot and I'm skeptical of the argument's force. Arguably, this is already happening and has almost totally already 'happened' with the expansion of capital (particularly Western capital) and capital's nature as a homogenizing force in which every aspect of society must be commodified and sellable - any use of time which cannot be commodified is therefore useless time in the eyes of capital, and worse, an "opportunity cost". So the culture we are left with around the world is only the culture that could be commodified - that is to say, it is culture that didn't speak out too strongly against this unifying force. I'd argue that capital's indifference to the qualitative aspects differentiating one culture from another leads to a monoculture in the first place. When everyone is selling culture, those same sellers will switch to whatever is the most profitable at the time and abandon whatever they were selling before, even if it was "genuine culture". I'm not saying it happens all the time - some individuals have the nerve to stand up to capital, but few succeed. As a famous German philosopher once said, considered as a process of history, we can't hold these individuals responsible for the society they foster, however much they may try and subjectively raise themselves above them. It doesn't make much sense to analyze the possible cultural effects of an "open borders" policy under the totality of capital - whatever culture looks like (and indeed how people act about it) in a post-capital world will be radically different to how it looks today. What would the pressure for homogenization and commodification be in a world without capital? At first glance, it seems like such a pressure would not exist.

rovolo 8y ago

> if we have mass immigration and no borders - the rich differences between us will dissolve (US centric:) The US had mass migration from Europe around 1900, did the differences between the US and Europe dissolve? Did the Irish Catholics dissolve the differences between Christian sects in the US? Does the proximity to Mexico make Texas less distinct from the rest of the US? Did the introduction of pasta eliminate the desirability of visiting Rome? Culture isn't a conserved resource. New generations invent new culture with the people they know around them. Despite the open borders inside the US, we didn't stop being distinct regions. Did New Yorkers stop being New Yorkers when kids invented Rap?

vajrabum 8y ago

Improving women's ability to solve certain types of school problems by providing tutoring promotes the dislocation of social and cultural bonds? Sheesh.

not_that_noob 8y ago

I mean, mass immigration with no borders is exactly how humans spread out from Africa to populate the world. Seems it’s worked out great for humanity. And speaking as a resident of the Bay Area, I greatly appreciate the diverse people I meet. Not to mention the wide food choices.

Const-me 8y ago

> Who benefits from this dislocation of social and cultural bonds? Good for business for several reasons. Business no longer need to pay person enough to raise a family. When genders or people are completely interchangeable, this puts downwards pressure on salaries, increases supply by increasing mobility. People with dislocated bonds, and people doing work they don't like, are less happy in general. Makes it easier to sell them shiny stuff they don't actually need.

kaitai 8y ago
I benefit, as a woman who likes math and has great spatial skills! Sorry y'all are buying stuff to soothe your souls 'cause I'm happier.

hrktb 8y ago

> I don't understand this obsession with attempting to force the idea that men and women are/should be interchangeable. This is not the focus though: reading through, it's more about women having difficulties in a specific task, which then impacted how they did in other courses. The university found a way to help get better at it, and it partly bridged a gap between them and their male counterpart. At no point is it a question of interchangeability or becoming undifferentiable, it's a matter of improving skills.