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Replacing an oppressive apparatus that is relying on proof of military/police power to establish trust in banking with some form of an algorithm that is relyin

Replacing an oppressive apparatus that is relying on proof of military/police power to establish trust in banking with some form of an algorithm that is relying on proof of work/energy may be energy saving at the end. Just compare how much police/military has to be maintained and related resources spent to the naked energy for mining/transactions.

arcticbull 8y ago
Both of those will remain. Even if we fully adopted Bitcoin there's no world in which we tell the army and the police to go home and thank them for their service. They do other things. It's not particularly effective to tell ISIS "you can't hurt me -- I've got Bitcoins!" You can't double-spend this energy budget.
- flatfilefan 8y ago
  It’s a big question to what extent the wars are/aren’t an extension of economics. My understanding it’s a direct relationship. ISIS got their money from selling oil or from sponsors selling oil for dollars or printing dollars. Police is another matter. But as much as crime has to do with cash money or centralized capitalism it may become moot when fiat money and related misuse potential is abolished.
  - arcticbull 8y ago
    A decentralized (except for China), un-regulated payment system currently being used primarily to break the law with the purchase of illicit narcotics, goods and services is going to prevent the funding of terrorism how exactly? My understanding is these groups are using it already. Here's a writeup on how North Korea is actively using Bitcoin to circumvent fiat sanctions [1] from a pro-crypto news source. Here's one on how Mexican cartels use it [2]. If anything this means we'll need a bigger army. How is abuse going to be abolished through a system literally designed to prevent any form of controls? [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/north-korea-increasingly-uses-crypto-to-avoid-us-sanctions-experts-claim https://cointelegraph.com/news/north-korea-increasingly-uses... [2] https://www.ccn.com/how-mexican-cartels-use-chinese-crypto-brokers-to-launder-drug-money https://www.ccn.com/how-mexican-cartels-use-chinese-crypto-b...
davidgerard 8y ago
> Replacing an oppressive apparatus that is relying on proof of military/police power to establish trust in banking with some form of an algorithm that is relying on proof of work/energy may be energy saving at the end. Bitcoin, 0.1% of all electricity: 7 tps THE ENTIRE REST OF CIVILISATION, 99.9% of all electricity: a whole lot more than 6993 tps.
- turtlecloud 8y ago
  The best comparison is with the energy used for gold mining which far exceeds bitcoin energy costs. If you look at the giant trucks used in gold mines, you will are the energy savings.
  - davidgerard 7y ago
    one day someone will tell bitcoiners that (a) gold isn't the basis of the economy any more, and hasn't been for quite a while (b) yes, gold mining is also an ecological disaster that should be stopped

arcticbull 8y ago

Both of those will remain. Even if we fully adopted Bitcoin there's no world in which we tell the army and the police to go home and thank them for their service. They do other things. It's not particularly effective to tell ISIS "you can't hurt me -- I've got Bitcoins!" You can't double-spend this energy budget.

flatfilefan 8y ago
It’s a big question to what extent the wars are/aren’t an extension of economics. My understanding it’s a direct relationship. ISIS got their money from selling oil or from sponsors selling oil for dollars or printing dollars. Police is another matter. But as much as crime has to do with cash money or centralized capitalism it may become moot when fiat money and related misuse potential is abolished.
- arcticbull 8y ago
  A decentralized (except for China), un-regulated payment system currently being used primarily to break the law with the purchase of illicit narcotics, goods and services is going to prevent the funding of terrorism how exactly? My understanding is these groups are using it already. Here's a writeup on how North Korea is actively using Bitcoin to circumvent fiat sanctions [1] from a pro-crypto news source. Here's one on how Mexican cartels use it [2]. If anything this means we'll need a bigger army. How is abuse going to be abolished through a system literally designed to prevent any form of controls? [1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/north-korea-increasingly-uses-crypto-to-avoid-us-sanctions-experts-claim https://cointelegraph.com/news/north-korea-increasingly-uses... [2] https://www.ccn.com/how-mexican-cartels-use-chinese-crypto-brokers-to-launder-drug-money https://www.ccn.com/how-mexican-cartels-use-chinese-crypto-b...

davidgerard 8y ago

> Replacing an oppressive apparatus that is relying on proof of military/police power to establish trust in banking with some form of an algorithm that is relying on proof of work/energy may be energy saving at the end. Bitcoin, 0.1% of all electricity: 7 tps THE ENTIRE REST OF CIVILISATION, 99.9% of all electricity: a whole lot more than 6993 tps.

turtlecloud 8y ago
The best comparison is with the energy used for gold mining which far exceeds bitcoin energy costs. If you look at the giant trucks used in gold mines, you will are the energy savings.
- davidgerard 7y ago
  one day someone will tell bitcoiners that (a) gold isn't the basis of the economy any more, and hasn't been for quite a while (b) yes, gold mining is also an ecological disaster that should be stopped