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> Oracle now provides the JDK under a 100% free and open source license Such altruism; Can they do this for the TCK? Why not? Maybe all of Graal then? That see

> Oracle now provides the JDK under a 100% free and open source license Such altruism; Can they do this for the TCK? Why not? Maybe all of Graal then? That seems to be where many of the dev efforts went after some staff for those now-free, previously-closed components were either repurposed or let go. I don't mind a company trying to make money (granted, not a fan of doing it on the language itself), but we shouldn't pretend they are selfless by treating actions that other languages had long since done as special.

pron 8y ago
> Such altruism You think that large open source projects developed by hundreds of full-time engineers are meant to be altruistic? Spending ~$100M a year (that's my estimate; I don't have numbers) is not meant as a charitable contribution, and if it were, I'd rather companies contribute this kind of money to worthier causes than software. > Can they do this for the TCK? The TCK is provided free of charge to people who produce OpenJDK builds. It is not provided free of charge to people who produce non-OpenJDK JDKs. > Why not? Perhaps because this is still seen as another channel to fund all those hundreds of full-time developers who make this open source software. All open source projects of this magnitude -- Chrome, .NET, Android, Swift -- are also funded by various income channels. I don't think any one of those, including OpenJDK, is open for selfless purposes. That's just not how "Big Open Source" generally works. But it is a fact that Oracle open sourced the entire JDK, and many people think that's a very good thing.
- kodablah 8y ago
  There are differences which are worth noting. Any system shouldn't be considered open if test cases are held in secret (even if they are just implementation test cases). Opening the entire language and runtime is considered the norm these days, not especially laudable.
  - pron 8y ago
    First, I didn't say it was laudable, just that it's a fact. Second, is it the norm? Neither Cocoa nor .NET are fully open source AFAIK. Finally, the TCK tests aren't held in secret; they are licensed for free, but are just not open source (yet?). There are plenty of tests in OpenJDK, though: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk/file/805584336738/test http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk/file/805584336738/test

pron 8y ago

> Such altruism You think that large open source projects developed by hundreds of full-time engineers are meant to be altruistic? Spending ~$100M a year (that's my estimate; I don't have numbers) is not meant as a charitable contribution, and if it were, I'd rather companies contribute this kind of money to worthier causes than software. > Can they do this for the TCK? The TCK is provided free of charge to people who produce OpenJDK builds. It is not provided free of charge to people who produce non-OpenJDK JDKs. > Why not? Perhaps because this is still seen as another channel to fund all those hundreds of full-time developers who make this open source software. All open source projects of this magnitude -- Chrome, .NET, Android, Swift -- are also funded by various income channels. I don't think any one of those, including OpenJDK, is open for selfless purposes. That's just not how "Big Open Source" generally works. But it is a fact that Oracle open sourced the entire JDK, and many people think that's a very good thing.

kodablah 8y ago
There are differences which are worth noting. Any system shouldn't be considered open if test cases are held in secret (even if they are just implementation test cases). Opening the entire language and runtime is considered the norm these days, not especially laudable.
- pron 8y ago
  First, I didn't say it was laudable, just that it's a fact. Second, is it the norm? Neither Cocoa nor .NET are fully open source AFAIK. Finally, the TCK tests aren't held in secret; they are licensed for free, but are just not open source (yet?). There are plenty of tests in OpenJDK, though: http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk/file/805584336738/test http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk/jdk/file/805584336738/test