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>This likely makes overall Bitcoin mining greener, hurting the Bitcoin climate change FUD. I dislike the fact that Bitcoin fans have commandeered the term "FUD

>This likely makes overall Bitcoin mining greener, hurting the Bitcoin climate change FUD. I dislike the fact that Bitcoin fans have commandeered the term "FUD". The term originally referred to coming out of Microsoft, but you are using it to refer to well-intentioned people saying things that are true. It's the same as what happened to the term "fake news." Bitcoin has some very serious problems. We all know what they are. If you keep pretending they don't exist, you only hurt your own credibility.

ryanlol 8y ago
But the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true, the people making the claims may very well be well intentioned, they just aren’t correct.
- paulgb 8y ago
  Of all the fantastical things bitcoiners believe, the idea that the mining industry isn't directly responsible for a huge amount of CO2 emissions is one of the most egregious.
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person?
    - paulgb 8y ago
      I was responding to this point: > the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true
      - ryanlol 8y ago
        There's a world of difference between the wild claims re: bitcoin pushing global warming above 2°C and bitcoin causing lots of CO2 emissions.
jsutton 8y ago
Bitcoin certainly has its share of problems. There is nothing true, however, about Bitcoin causing climate change.
- loceng 8y ago
  It seems like someone along the way cleverly changed the valid and reasonable talking point about the intense and excessive energy use/costs away to a narrative Bitcoin (et al) are causing climate change - which is of course absurd; one of the bigger problems of Bitcoin (et al cryptocurrencies) is that their defence mechanism depends on using a higher amount of energy than someone who'd want to attempt 50%+1 attacks (or lower % take over attempts are still possible, just not guaranteed to allow double spend).
- mprev 8y ago
  Citation needed! Renewables are not free of externalities. Hydro damages environments. Wasting renewable energy on crypto mining prevents that energy being used for something productive and so drives the need for more renewable capacity or drives further use of fossil fuels. Bitcoin is an environmental disaster in the making. I see mining as akin to a religious rite that diverts potential away from useful activity and towards a fantasy instead.
Tuna-Fish 8y ago
> The term originally referred to lies coming out of Microsoft No. It originally referred to the marketing strategy of IBM, which basically consisted of casting doubt on the viability of their competitors. "No-one's ever been fired for buying IBM." It specifically did not mean outright lies, but the strategy of pointing out that when the market consists of an 800-pound gorilla and hordes of chimps, the chimps might be nimbler to respond to your needs and offer better prices, but you never know when one of them gets bulldozed, and if your infrastructure depends on them, that might be really bad for you. It is not necessary to lie to do this, and good FUD explicitly just consists of carefully selected verifiable factual statements that cast doubt on your competitors. It is an extremely ballsy marketing strategy: "Yes, our product is worse and costs much more, but you know that we have done this for decades and will still be doing this and supporting you for decades to come." It sold mainframes like hot cakes, even when competing systems sometimes were literally an order of magnitude less expensive. The association with Microsoft comes from how Gates was really impressed by it, and copied it for Microsoft, once they got big enough to use it. Unlike IBM, Microsoft used the term FUD internally, as revealed in the various documents that were leaked and/or published through discovery.

ryanlol 8y ago

But the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true, the people making the claims may very well be well intentioned, they just aren’t correct.

paulgb 8y ago
Of all the fantastical things bitcoiners believe, the idea that the mining industry isn't directly responsible for a huge amount of CO2 emissions is one of the most egregious.
- ryanlol 8y ago
  Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person?
  - paulgb 8y ago
    I was responding to this point: > the whole bitcoin climate change story isn’t true
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      There's a world of difference between the wild claims re: bitcoin pushing global warming above 2°C and bitcoin causing lots of CO2 emissions.

jsutton 8y ago

Bitcoin certainly has its share of problems. There is nothing true, however, about Bitcoin causing climate change.

loceng 8y ago
It seems like someone along the way cleverly changed the valid and reasonable talking point about the intense and excessive energy use/costs away to a narrative Bitcoin (et al) are causing climate change - which is of course absurd; one of the bigger problems of Bitcoin (et al cryptocurrencies) is that their defence mechanism depends on using a higher amount of energy than someone who'd want to attempt 50%+1 attacks (or lower % take over attempts are still possible, just not guaranteed to allow double spend).
mprev 8y ago
Citation needed! Renewables are not free of externalities. Hydro damages environments. Wasting renewable energy on crypto mining prevents that energy being used for something productive and so drives the need for more renewable capacity or drives further use of fossil fuels. Bitcoin is an environmental disaster in the making. I see mining as akin to a religious rite that diverts potential away from useful activity and towards a fantasy instead.

Tuna-Fish 8y ago

> The term originally referred to lies coming out of Microsoft No. It originally referred to the marketing strategy of IBM, which basically consisted of casting doubt on the viability of their competitors. "No-one's ever been fired for buying IBM." It specifically did not mean outright lies, but the strategy of pointing out that when the market consists of an 800-pound gorilla and hordes of chimps, the chimps might be nimbler to respond to your needs and offer better prices, but you never know when one of them gets bulldozed, and if your infrastructure depends on them, that might be really bad for you. It is not necessary to lie to do this, and good FUD explicitly just consists of carefully selected verifiable factual statements that cast doubt on your competitors. It is an extremely ballsy marketing strategy: "Yes, our product is worse and costs much more, but you know that we have done this for decades and will still be doing this and supporting you for decades to come." It sold mainframes like hot cakes, even when competing systems sometimes were literally an order of magnitude less expensive. The association with Microsoft comes from how Gates was really impressed by it, and copied it for Microsoft, once they got big enough to use it. Unlike IBM, Microsoft used the term FUD internally, as revealed in the various documents that were leaked and/or published through discovery.