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Bocsimako is the proof that Lisp is best for AI algorithms Cargo cultism at its finest

ohyes 16y ago
It seems that any positive inclination towards lisp is cargo cultism. Gabor Melis is a seriously smart guy, and probably would have kicked ass in any language. That said, I'm going to pull out that phrase next time someone says 'Java/C# is good for Enterprise', or 'C++ is good for video games', or 'C is good for systems programming'. Cargo cultism indeed.
- danparsonson 16y ago
  Two things: 1) "X is good for Y" is very much not the same thing as "X is best for Y" 2) One person having great success at something is not a pattern, and doesn't usually prove a general rule (I'm hedging with 'usually' - I can't think of a counter example but I expect someone else will :-). Common usage, while not a guarantee, is at least a good indicator of fitness - if Java were better for systems programming than C, it's likely (though of course not certain) that we would be saying 'Java is best for systems programming', and have some basis for that claim beyond the success of one person who has already demonstrated competence in the same general area (i.e. the contests previous competition wins). The headline might better have been "Experienced programmer uses Lisp to win Google AI contest". Correlation vs causation - he didn't win because he knew Lisp, but he did use Lisp in his winning solution, and you can understand that without taking a position on Lisp itself; there are shades of fanboism in some of the comments on this thread.
  - ohyes 16y ago
    1.) People (who use them) will happily tell you that each of those are the 'best' choices in their respective fields. People say 'C is best for systems programming', that I worded it more weakly is irrelevant. 2.) Lisp has been in use in AI, since before the birth of AI. It is still used in AI, and there has been plenty of success with it. There is plenty of 'constant conjunction' (to borrow the causative definition from Hume), associated with Lisp and AI. Acting as if his use of Lisp couldn't have given him an advantage in an AI contest is pretty much the ultimate lisp denial-ism.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- lispm 16y ago
  part of being seriously smart is to use the best tool.
- richcollins 16y ago
  I don't think you understand the term "cargo cultism" That the language is Lisp isn't important. The important consideration is that he ascribed the success of the entry to the language without any evidence linking the two.
swannodette 16y ago
Ugh. Cargo cultism? The full quote is: After seeing Gábor’s performance, many participants commented that they would be taking a new look at the 50 year old language. “Bocsimako is the proof that Lisp is best for AI algorithms,” quipped one player. one player.
- gruseom 16y ago
  And as any reader of the Hardy Boys can tell you, "quipped" implies that it was said in jest.
- richcollins 16y ago
  Cargo cultism is applicable to one person

ohyes 16y ago

It seems that any positive inclination towards lisp is cargo cultism. Gabor Melis is a seriously smart guy, and probably would have kicked ass in any language. That said, I'm going to pull out that phrase next time someone says 'Java/C# is good for Enterprise', or 'C++ is good for video games', or 'C is good for systems programming'. Cargo cultism indeed.

danparsonson 16y ago
Two things: 1) "X is good for Y" is very much not the same thing as "X is best for Y" 2) One person having great success at something is not a pattern, and doesn't usually prove a general rule (I'm hedging with 'usually' - I can't think of a counter example but I expect someone else will :-). Common usage, while not a guarantee, is at least a good indicator of fitness - if Java were better for systems programming than C, it's likely (though of course not certain) that we would be saying 'Java is best for systems programming', and have some basis for that claim beyond the success of one person who has already demonstrated competence in the same general area (i.e. the contests previous competition wins). The headline might better have been "Experienced programmer uses Lisp to win Google AI contest". Correlation vs causation - he didn't win because he knew Lisp, but he did use Lisp in his winning solution, and you can understand that without taking a position on Lisp itself; there are shades of fanboism in some of the comments on this thread.
- ohyes 16y ago
  1.) People (who use them) will happily tell you that each of those are the 'best' choices in their respective fields. People say 'C is best for systems programming', that I worded it more weakly is irrelevant. 2.) Lisp has been in use in AI, since before the birth of AI. It is still used in AI, and there has been plenty of success with it. There is plenty of 'constant conjunction' (to borrow the causative definition from Hume), associated with Lisp and AI. Acting as if his use of Lisp couldn't have given him an advantage in an AI contest is pretty much the ultimate lisp denial-ism.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
lispm 16y ago
part of being seriously smart is to use the best tool.
richcollins 16y ago
I don't think you understand the term "cargo cultism" That the language is Lisp isn't important. The important consideration is that he ascribed the success of the entry to the language without any evidence linking the two.

swannodette 16y ago

Ugh. Cargo cultism? The full quote is: After seeing Gábor’s performance, many participants commented that they would be taking a new look at the 50 year old language. “Bocsimako is the proof that Lisp is best for AI algorithms,” quipped one player. one player.

gruseom 16y ago
And as any reader of the Hardy Boys can tell you, "quipped" implies that it was said in jest.
richcollins 16y ago
Cargo cultism is applicable to one person