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Why wait? You can do it gradually. I've been using Macs since 1985, and I still have one on my desk at work, but I noticed a few years ago that I'd gravitated t

Why wait? You can do it gradually. I've been using Macs since 1985, and I still have one on my desk at work, but I noticed a few years ago that I'd gravitated toward doing most everything on Linux without really thinking about it. Just get a Thinkpad or something, put Ubuntu or Mint on it, and see how it feels.

Animats 8y ago
Why wait? Indeed. I made the switch years ago and there's less hassle on the Linux side. The big vendors are just so control-oriented now.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
Why wait? Because I don't want Linux. MacOS largely still just works and Linux is moving away from its strengths as quickly as possible. I don't want systemd. I don't want pulse audio. I don't want Wayland. Linux's strength, for me, has been that it's unixy. If I'm moving to a non-unixy setup, like Linux is becoming, I want it to be as polished and well supported as possible. Linux, simply put, is none of those. And, quite frankly, I don't want a Thinkpad (and I can't stand that eraser tip pointing thing). I bought a 2015 rMBP late last year and cross shopped offerings from Dell, Lenovo, and one of those Linux laptop companies whose name is escaping me right now. The Mac won out and didn't command a premium over comparably specced alternatives. I'll spare the ranting about the Gnome 3, new GIMP UI and systemd in general (but these are both major issues for me and symptomatic of a culture I don't want to buy into). I recently tried to set up a Pi Zero with an Audioquest DragonFly DAC. The DAC just works in FreeBSD and MacOS with no hassle. I was able to tweak ALSA to get sound out of it, but shairport-sync can't set the volume (which works just fine on FreeBSD). WiFi was a struggle as well. I forgot what an archaic mess of procfs tunables and bizarre config files Linux on the desktop can be, and I don't want to spend my days debugging my desktop system. One of my coworkers at megacorp got the officially sanctioned Linux laptop (some Dell thing). Like a good end user he installed updates as they became available. Turns out megacorp bought the Windows version of the laptop and installed Linux on it. Well, my coworker installed some firmware updates that promptly re-enabled secure boot borking his system. He lost a day trying to figure out what happened (Dell wouldn't support Linux on it and corporate IT was entirely indifferent). I don't want to dodge a minefield masquerading as a support matrix. It seems like it's been the year of the Linux on the desktop for most of my adult life. Edit: Downvotes don't win over users.
- ufo 8y ago
  I think that is a strange argument to make for preferring macs over Linux. Many of the things you mentioned are inspired by osx counterparts (for example, launchd was the main inspiration for systemd)
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    I think that is a strange argument to make for preferring macs over Linux. Many of the things you mentioned are inspired by osx counterparts (for example, launchd was the main inspiration for systemd) How is it a strange argument? Apple did a good job developing its daemons, and did so for a brand new operating system. Pottering did an abysmal job imitating Apple and is doing a worse job at maintaining his software (e.g. Pottering refusing to open CVEs for known vulnerabilities), and has worked tirelessly to replace working solutions. If I want non-unix, I go with MacOS. If I want unix-ish, Linux doesn't fit the bill. Much like how I chafe at the GIMP developers chasing non-existent "pro" users with unwieldy UI changes, Linux on the desktop seems to be chasing change for change's sake.
    - simula67 8y ago
      You can avoid using systemd[1]. If you don't like the churn of desktop environments, may I suggest Xfce ? It is usable and does not overhaul things that often. I personally prefer systemd and moved from Ubuntu to ArchLinux a long time ago in order to use it. But I agree with you, the constant overhaul of UI is a problem which is why I have stuck to Xfce for a long time. I however, do not use GIMP, but there may be other options out there. By the way MacOS is Unix, it is a POSIX compliant OS. Also, you can run Linux on your Mac. [1] http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distribution...
      - inferiorhuman 8y ago
        Right, I can do a lot of things with Linux with enough effort. But for a desktop OS I want things to just work. Pretty much any major distro that's supposed to just work is going to be systemd at this point. And, sure, MacOS is unix-ish but Apple is ripping more and more of the old NextStep and BSDish things in favor of their own stuff with each version. As long as it just works I'm pretty happy. There are, however, lots of little quirks and gaps with their POSIX layer which is why I'd hesitate to call it a proper UNIX. Also, you can run Linux on your Mac. Which would be great if I wanted Linux. I don't. MacOS is working just fine for me.
rayiner 8y ago
You can’t just “get a thinkpad or something.” The latest X1 Carbon, for example, requires quite a bit of massaging to work with Linux. (Though that’s more a fault of PC makers than Linux. Because the PC market is so price sensitive, the BOM is constantly changing. So just because one generation of a laptop works well with Linux doesn’t mean the next generation will.)
- marssaxman 8y ago
  Thanks for the information. I am on my seventh "just get a thinkpad" running Linux now, but I haven't tried the consumer models.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    The carbon is a business model.
- voltagex_ 8y ago
  Do you have any info on the issues with the latest (2019?) X1 Carbon? I was looking at it to replace my Dell XPS, but I'd like to be able to run Linux on it at some point.

Animats 8y ago

Why wait? Indeed. I made the switch years ago and there's less hassle on the Linux side. The big vendors are just so control-oriented now.

inferiorhuman 8y ago

Why wait? Because I don't want Linux. MacOS largely still just works and Linux is moving away from its strengths as quickly as possible. I don't want systemd. I don't want pulse audio. I don't want Wayland. Linux's strength, for me, has been that it's unixy. If I'm moving to a non-unixy setup, like Linux is becoming, I want it to be as polished and well supported as possible. Linux, simply put, is none of those. And, quite frankly, I don't want a Thinkpad (and I can't stand that eraser tip pointing thing). I bought a 2015 rMBP late last year and cross shopped offerings from Dell, Lenovo, and one of those Linux laptop companies whose name is escaping me right now. The Mac won out and didn't command a premium over comparably specced alternatives. I'll spare the ranting about the Gnome 3, new GIMP UI and systemd in general (but these are both major issues for me and symptomatic of a culture I don't want to buy into). I recently tried to set up a Pi Zero with an Audioquest DragonFly DAC. The DAC just works in FreeBSD and MacOS with no hassle. I was able to tweak ALSA to get sound out of it, but shairport-sync can't set the volume (which works just fine on FreeBSD). WiFi was a struggle as well. I forgot what an archaic mess of procfs tunables and bizarre config files Linux on the desktop can be, and I don't want to spend my days debugging my desktop system. One of my coworkers at megacorp got the officially sanctioned Linux laptop (some Dell thing). Like a good end user he installed updates as they became available. Turns out megacorp bought the Windows version of the laptop and installed Linux on it. Well, my coworker installed some firmware updates that promptly re-enabled secure boot borking his system. He lost a day trying to figure out what happened (Dell wouldn't support Linux on it and corporate IT was entirely indifferent). I don't want to dodge a minefield masquerading as a support matrix. It seems like it's been the year of the Linux on the desktop for most of my adult life. Edit: Downvotes don't win over users.

ufo 8y ago
I think that is a strange argument to make for preferring macs over Linux. Many of the things you mentioned are inspired by osx counterparts (for example, launchd was the main inspiration for systemd)
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  I think that is a strange argument to make for preferring macs over Linux. Many of the things you mentioned are inspired by osx counterparts (for example, launchd was the main inspiration for systemd) How is it a strange argument? Apple did a good job developing its daemons, and did so for a brand new operating system. Pottering did an abysmal job imitating Apple and is doing a worse job at maintaining his software (e.g. Pottering refusing to open CVEs for known vulnerabilities), and has worked tirelessly to replace working solutions. If I want non-unix, I go with MacOS. If I want unix-ish, Linux doesn't fit the bill. Much like how I chafe at the GIMP developers chasing non-existent "pro" users with unwieldy UI changes, Linux on the desktop seems to be chasing change for change's sake.
  - simula67 8y ago
    You can avoid using systemd[1]. If you don't like the churn of desktop environments, may I suggest Xfce ? It is usable and does not overhaul things that often. I personally prefer systemd and moved from Ubuntu to ArchLinux a long time ago in order to use it. But I agree with you, the constant overhaul of UI is a problem which is why I have stuck to Xfce for a long time. I however, do not use GIMP, but there may be other options out there. By the way MacOS is Unix, it is a POSIX compliant OS. Also, you can run Linux on your Mac. [1] http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distribution...
    - inferiorhuman 8y ago
      Right, I can do a lot of things with Linux with enough effort. But for a desktop OS I want things to just work. Pretty much any major distro that's supposed to just work is going to be systemd at this point. And, sure, MacOS is unix-ish but Apple is ripping more and more of the old NextStep and BSDish things in favor of their own stuff with each version. As long as it just works I'm pretty happy. There are, however, lots of little quirks and gaps with their POSIX layer which is why I'd hesitate to call it a proper UNIX. Also, you can run Linux on your Mac. Which would be great if I wanted Linux. I don't. MacOS is working just fine for me.

rayiner 8y ago

You can’t just “get a thinkpad or something.” The latest X1 Carbon, for example, requires quite a bit of massaging to work with Linux. (Though that’s more a fault of PC makers than Linux. Because the PC market is so price sensitive, the BOM is constantly changing. So just because one generation of a laptop works well with Linux doesn’t mean the next generation will.)

marssaxman 8y ago
Thanks for the information. I am on my seventh "just get a thinkpad" running Linux now, but I haven't tried the consumer models.
- rayiner 8y ago
  The carbon is a business model.
voltagex_ 8y ago
Do you have any info on the issues with the latest (2019?) X1 Carbon? I was looking at it to replace my Dell XPS, but I'd like to be able to run Linux on it at some point.