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This model needs to evolve from “you must sign with Apple” to “you must sign with one of $TRUSTED_LIST”. There should be a (non-trivial) way to set this, and i

This model needs to evolve from “you must sign with Apple” to “you must sign with one of $TRUSTED_LIST”. There should be a (non-trivial) way to set this, and if I decide all software signed by my best friend is OK then I should have that option. Grandmas should be able to trust software from their IT-expert grandsons and so forth. There is value in requiring all software to be validated by somebody but it’s a slippery slope to have ONE. The main reason is, even if I trust “Apple” now, what is “Apple” in 10 years? (Heck I thought I “trusted” them to always make desirable hardware, got burned on that one.) Things change. I want another signatory.

_wmd 7y ago
This is literally how code signing worked for Windows. Unsurprisingly signed malware has been far from uncommon
- 6nf 7y ago
  There's been issues with code signing but you can't say it's been pointless. It's a significant hoop to jump for malware writers and out of reach for basic script kiddies.
- jake_the_third 7y ago
  This is literally also how cert signing works for tls. Unsurprisingly miss-issued certs have been far from common. This model can work. It's just that microsoft is being sloppy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - swiftcoder 7y ago
    Mis-issued certs are common enough that Google et al had to force Symantec out of the cert issuing business. It's a model that only works with a monopolistic cartel gatekeeping the ability to issue certs (which is basically Apple's role in this scenario).
- realusername 7y ago
  > Unsurprisingly signed malware has been far from uncommon Malware is very common on the Play store as well, signed software by one gatekeeper does not guarantee anything.
danielrhodes 7y ago
How does what you are proposing increase trust for consumers? I think that when you look at how things went for the certificate business, you will find this model pretty quickly turns into a pretty scammy breed of companies offering "notary" services without a lot of benefit to consumers. Consumers would have to know which authorities were trustworthy, and since most won't care/know, it results in lower security overall. Now if the App Store were decentralized, I think things would be a lot different. But Apple already owns things end-to-end, so they may as well be the certificate authority as well.

_wmd 7y ago

This is literally how code signing worked for Windows. Unsurprisingly signed malware has been far from uncommon

6nf 7y ago
There's been issues with code signing but you can't say it's been pointless. It's a significant hoop to jump for malware writers and out of reach for basic script kiddies.
jake_the_third 7y ago
This is literally also how cert signing works for tls. Unsurprisingly miss-issued certs have been far from common. This model can work. It's just that microsoft is being sloppy.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- swiftcoder 7y ago
  Mis-issued certs are common enough that Google et al had to force Symantec out of the cert issuing business. It's a model that only works with a monopolistic cartel gatekeeping the ability to issue certs (which is basically Apple's role in this scenario).
realusername 7y ago
> Unsurprisingly signed malware has been far from uncommon Malware is very common on the Play store as well, signed software by one gatekeeper does not guarantee anything.

danielrhodes 7y ago

How does what you are proposing increase trust for consumers? I think that when you look at how things went for the certificate business, you will find this model pretty quickly turns into a pretty scammy breed of companies offering "notary" services without a lot of benefit to consumers. Consumers would have to know which authorities were trustworthy, and since most won't care/know, it results in lower security overall. Now if the App Store were decentralized, I think things would be a lot different. But Apple already owns things end-to-end, so they may as well be the certificate authority as well.