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> This doesn't seem to be a major problem for the EU, which has unrestricted internal migration but social programs are administered by the individual member st

> This doesn't seem to be a major problem for the EU, which has unrestricted internal migration but social programs are administered by the individual member states I might be off the mark here, but from my understanding wasn't unrestricted migration one of the big drivers behind Brexit? Or at least the idea that the "poor countries" were "taking advantage" of the "rich countries"?

mamon 8y ago
My understanding is that unrestricted immigration has the opposite effect: rich countries taking advantage of poor ones, via “brain drain”. That’s why the average age of medicine doctors in Poland seems to be around 50: all the younger ones went to Germany or Scandinavia. It’s true for blue collar workers as well: try hiring a contractor to remodel your house and then watch them leave the job unfinished because they got a better paying gig in UK (that actually happened to a friend of mine)
- sparkling 8y ago
  Both is true. There is brain drain as well as welfare migration. My hometown in Germany with a population of ~300k now has ~11k migrants from Romania und Bulgaria. Aside from various social problems this is also a big strain on the social systems. 85%+ of households are dependent on child support checks.
  - distances 8y ago
    There's also the fact that Western European countries desperately need immigration for covering future pensions. Countries like Germany and Finland are the next to follow Japan's crippling issues with aging population and poor dependency ratio.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
A lot of the drivers behind Brexit have a tenuous relationship to facts. There are some legitimate reasons to leave, but there are also self-interested parties telling people the lies they want to be told. And "mistaken people believe this" is no support for a position. The thing about rich people moving to places with lower taxes and poor people moving to places with more services is that it's the sort of thing that seems intuitively obvious until you actually think about it, and you realize it's like arguing that lakes are impossible because water evaporates. It's not that water doesn't evaporate. It's not that poor people don't prefer more services and rich people don't prefer lower taxes. It's that everything is not one dimensional and there are other factors that outweigh that one by enough that the lake is still full of water.
arethuza 8y ago
The studies I have seen referenced suggest that EU migrants to the UK are generally net contributors as they pay their taxes like everyone else but tend to travel here without dependents, be younger and eventually go home before they are too old. Migrants from outside of the UK on the other hand tend to be older and come with families so tend to be a net drain on services. Leaving the EU will mean more migrants from outside of the EU - so will actually cause the situation a lot of Leavers were worrying about to get a lot worse. See Robert Peston's WTF? for details.

mamon 8y ago

My understanding is that unrestricted immigration has the opposite effect: rich countries taking advantage of poor ones, via “brain drain”. That’s why the average age of medicine doctors in Poland seems to be around 50: all the younger ones went to Germany or Scandinavia. It’s true for blue collar workers as well: try hiring a contractor to remodel your house and then watch them leave the job unfinished because they got a better paying gig in UK (that actually happened to a friend of mine)

sparkling 8y ago
Both is true. There is brain drain as well as welfare migration. My hometown in Germany with a population of ~300k now has ~11k migrants from Romania und Bulgaria. Aside from various social problems this is also a big strain on the social systems. 85%+ of households are dependent on child support checks.
- distances 8y ago
  There's also the fact that Western European countries desperately need immigration for covering future pensions. Countries like Germany and Finland are the next to follow Japan's crippling issues with aging population and poor dependency ratio.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

A lot of the drivers behind Brexit have a tenuous relationship to facts. There are some legitimate reasons to leave, but there are also self-interested parties telling people the lies they want to be told. And "mistaken people believe this" is no support for a position. The thing about rich people moving to places with lower taxes and poor people moving to places with more services is that it's the sort of thing that seems intuitively obvious until you actually think about it, and you realize it's like arguing that lakes are impossible because water evaporates. It's not that water doesn't evaporate. It's not that poor people don't prefer more services and rich people don't prefer lower taxes. It's that everything is not one dimensional and there are other factors that outweigh that one by enough that the lake is still full of water.

arethuza 8y ago

The studies I have seen referenced suggest that EU migrants to the UK are generally net contributors as they pay their taxes like everyone else but tend to travel here without dependents, be younger and eventually go home before they are too old. Migrants from outside of the UK on the other hand tend to be older and come with families so tend to be a net drain on services. Leaving the EU will mean more migrants from outside of the EU - so will actually cause the situation a lot of Leavers were worrying about to get a lot worse. See Robert Peston's WTF? for details.