5 ms·

It wasn't worth the cost in Toronto, either, but you didn't care because it wasn't you who paid the cost.

lhorie 8y ago
Technically I did, since my taxes pay for it. What I didn't pay for is the overhead of clerical work from two different corporations for mailing me letters informing me of how arbitrarily priced my doctor visit was.
- Simon_says 8y ago
  While technically true, that's disingenuous. You paid no additional marginal cost. The incentive structures matter.
  - blindwatchmaker 8y ago
    GP is not the one being disingenuous.
    - Simon_says 8y ago
      Who do you think is being disingenuous?
  - lhorie 8y ago
    I agree incentive structure matters, and it's why I consider the OHIP model superior: "I need care and it's already paid for, so I get it", vs the US model "I pay more upfront to do the triage nurse's job myself so I can then pay again if I do decide to see the doctor after all and geez I hope I can afford the bill when it comes"
- wolco 8y ago
  You did pay for it. Half of the Ontario budget goes towards it. The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similiar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model. The costs are hidden so more services are used. If costs were direct paid for out of your Ontario fund (a yearly budget that if not used would be carried forwarded or removed from your taxes) than a better balance could be found.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    My taxes pay for the doctor's time, the nurse's time, the receptionist's time, etc. And that is entirely fair. It does not pay for clerical workers in different companies to be sending paperwork back and forth to satisfy some systematically complicated pricing structure, because such a thing does not exist. And it certainly does not pay the salary for the CEO of CollectiveHealth or whatever your provider is. > The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model The pricing is hidden from me regardless, except that in one case people get the care they need and go on with their lives, and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance. When you look at international rankings of standard of living, the Ontario system is considered a good model (along with other similar healthcare systems such as those in nordic countries). The US model is poorer on several fronts, from pricing opaqueness to availability for low income people, and let's not even go into medical bankruptcies...
    - sbov 8y ago
      > and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance. Lol. I wish. For me it was 5 digits. Closer to 6 than 4. And I had a $1,800/month premium for a family of 4. Spent multiple hours per week for months on end playing phone tag for the hospital and insurance company until it got resolved. Hospital billing also told me to not worry because nothing ever gets paid until both sides start suing eachother. Yeah, this is peak efficiency. I just love taking up "resolving medical bills" as an unpaid part time job for the better part of a year.
      - lhorie 8y ago
        Ouch. Sorry to hear that :/
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

Technically I did, since my taxes pay for it. What I didn't pay for is the overhead of clerical work from two different corporations for mailing me letters informing me of how arbitrarily priced my doctor visit was.

Simon_says 8y ago
While technically true, that's disingenuous. You paid no additional marginal cost. The incentive structures matter.
- blindwatchmaker 8y ago
  GP is not the one being disingenuous.
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    Who do you think is being disingenuous?
- lhorie 8y ago
  I agree incentive structure matters, and it's why I consider the OHIP model superior: "I need care and it's already paid for, so I get it", vs the US model "I pay more upfront to do the triage nurse's job myself so I can then pay again if I do decide to see the doctor after all and geez I hope I can afford the bill when it comes"
wolco 8y ago
You did pay for it. Half of the Ontario budget goes towards it. The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similiar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model. The costs are hidden so more services are used. If costs were direct paid for out of your Ontario fund (a yearly budget that if not used would be carried forwarded or removed from your taxes) than a better balance could be found.
- lhorie 8y ago
  My taxes pay for the doctor's time, the nurse's time, the receptionist's time, etc. And that is entirely fair. It does not pay for clerical workers in different companies to be sending paperwork back and forth to satisfy some systematically complicated pricing structure, because such a thing does not exist. And it certainly does not pay the salary for the CEO of CollectiveHealth or whatever your provider is. > The fact that you would go without thought of the cost but in a similar situation would avoid because of the direct costs shows why the Ontario system is a poor model The pricing is hidden from me regardless, except that in one case people get the care they need and go on with their lives, and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance. When you look at international rankings of standard of living, the Ontario system is considered a good model (along with other similar healthcare systems such as those in nordic countries). The US model is poorer on several fronts, from pricing opaqueness to availability for low income people, and let's not even go into medical bankruptcies...
  - sbov 8y ago
    > and in the other I hear stories of people getting a surprise 4-digit bill in the mail three weeks later, after already paying through the nose for insurance. Lol. I wish. For me it was 5 digits. Closer to 6 than 4. And I had a $1,800/month premium for a family of 4. Spent multiple hours per week for months on end playing phone tag for the hospital and insurance company until it got resolved. Hospital billing also told me to not worry because nothing ever gets paid until both sides start suing eachother. Yeah, this is peak efficiency. I just love taking up "resolving medical bills" as an unpaid part time job for the better part of a year.
    - lhorie 8y ago
      Ouch. Sorry to hear that :/
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]