4 ms·

I hope Apple would turn away from webkit and invested into firefox. They're both privacy focused so it seems like a logical choice.

saagarjha 8y ago
Why would they do that when they essentially control an entire browser engine?
- fjp 8y ago
  Because their browser engine sucks, people just use it on mobile (iOS) because they basically have to in order to open any link. Every full time job I've had I've been issued a MacBook and step 1 of setup was "install Firefox or Chrome". Safari is one of the few things that truly outright blows about the Apple ecosystem.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Safari is the first thing I launch when I open my Mac and it's the last thing that I quit before shutting it down. If you're looking for battery life and RAM to spare for other applications, use Safari.
  - atombender 8y ago
    Safari is a fantastic browser, actually. It's as fast as Chrome and Firefox. (Firefox is curiously sluggish on the Mac, even when the latest Quantum improvements.) Sure, it tends to lag behind when it comes to adopting certain newfangled web technologies, but it supports everything that's important (even web workers now? I think?), and it's super stable. I use Chrome for web development, though, because of the built-in dev tools. (The tools are pretty gnarly for 2019, but they get the job done, for the most part.)
- lousken 8y ago
  Because safari will sooner or later become another Edge. Apple doesn't invest enough into safari and now it's a browser which is most behind in terms of technologies.
  - millstone 8y ago
    Apple's Safari investment is focused on features like tracking prevention and anti-fingerprinting. Stuff for users at the expense of developers.
    - codycraven 8y ago
      I've seen what happens to web browsers that trail behind the industry in features. It doesn't matter how nice the privacy features are, when a user encounters web site after web site that doesn't work right in their browser, they eventually each out to a more technical friend that recommends trying browser X. When browser X fixes their problems, they never return.
      - vegasdew 8y ago
        iPad / iPhone are captive rich markets, where only Safari is available. So companies/devs will keep on testing/supporting for it.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
kerng 8y ago
Stupid question probably... since I haven't had an iPhone for a couple years. Is Safari there still a thing? On my Mac I'm not using Safari at all. Havent opened it a single time since i got my latest MacBook - well I must have to download firefox but I dont remember. I remember at one point Apple wouldnt allow any other browsers rendering engines on iOS - is that still the case?
- javagram 8y ago
  Safari is still a thing and still under active development. All iOS browsers use Safari WebKit under the hood.
- atombender 8y ago
  iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT -- Apple doesn't allow apps to compile native code on the fly, which modern JavaScript engines like V8 do. The exception is Apple's own JavaScriptCore, which works with WebKit. In theory you could have Firefox Quantum as a tenderer with JavaScriptCore as the JS engine, but that might be more work than it's worth.
  - est31 8y ago
    > iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT Wrong. > 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc. > your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third party software https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
    - atombender 8y ago
      You're not contradicting me. The section you're quoting is not about this, by the way. You want section 2.5.2: "Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps."
Lammy 8y ago
Sadly Apple took the wind out of my all-time favorite browser, Camino, née Chimera, when they started up the WebKit/Safari project by hiring away key people like Dave Hyatt: https://donmelton.com/2013/01/10/safari-is-released-to-the-world/ https://donmelton.com/2013/01/10/safari-is-released-to-the-w...

saagarjha 8y ago

Why would they do that when they essentially control an entire browser engine?

fjp 8y ago
Because their browser engine sucks, people just use it on mobile (iOS) because they basically have to in order to open any link. Every full time job I've had I've been issued a MacBook and step 1 of setup was "install Firefox or Chrome". Safari is one of the few things that truly outright blows about the Apple ecosystem.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Safari is the first thing I launch when I open my Mac and it's the last thing that I quit before shutting it down. If you're looking for battery life and RAM to spare for other applications, use Safari.
- atombender 8y ago
  Safari is a fantastic browser, actually. It's as fast as Chrome and Firefox. (Firefox is curiously sluggish on the Mac, even when the latest Quantum improvements.) Sure, it tends to lag behind when it comes to adopting certain newfangled web technologies, but it supports everything that's important (even web workers now? I think?), and it's super stable. I use Chrome for web development, though, because of the built-in dev tools. (The tools are pretty gnarly for 2019, but they get the job done, for the most part.)
lousken 8y ago
Because safari will sooner or later become another Edge. Apple doesn't invest enough into safari and now it's a browser which is most behind in terms of technologies.
- millstone 8y ago
  Apple's Safari investment is focused on features like tracking prevention and anti-fingerprinting. Stuff for users at the expense of developers.
  - codycraven 8y ago
    I've seen what happens to web browsers that trail behind the industry in features. It doesn't matter how nice the privacy features are, when a user encounters web site after web site that doesn't work right in their browser, they eventually each out to a more technical friend that recommends trying browser X. When browser X fixes their problems, they never return.
    - vegasdew 8y ago
      iPad / iPhone are captive rich markets, where only Safari is available. So companies/devs will keep on testing/supporting for it.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

kerng 8y ago

Stupid question probably... since I haven't had an iPhone for a couple years. Is Safari there still a thing? On my Mac I'm not using Safari at all. Havent opened it a single time since i got my latest MacBook - well I must have to download firefox but I dont remember. I remember at one point Apple wouldnt allow any other browsers rendering engines on iOS - is that still the case?

javagram 8y ago
Safari is still a thing and still under active development. All iOS browsers use Safari WebKit under the hood.
atombender 8y ago
iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT -- Apple doesn't allow apps to compile native code on the fly, which modern JavaScript engines like V8 do. The exception is Apple's own JavaScriptCore, which works with WebKit. In theory you could have Firefox Quantum as a tenderer with JavaScriptCore as the JS engine, but that might be more work than it's worth.
- est31 8y ago
  > iOS apps can use whatever rendering engine they want. The restriction is on JIT Wrong. > 4.7 HTML5 Games, Bots, etc. > your app must use WebKit and JavaScript Core to run third party software and should not attempt to extend or expose native platform APIs to third party software https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
  - atombender 8y ago
    You're not contradicting me. The section you're quoting is not about this, by the way. You want section 2.5.2: "Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not read or write data outside the designated container area, nor may they download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app, including other apps."

Lammy 8y ago

Sadly Apple took the wind out of my all-time favorite browser, Camino, née Chimera, when they started up the WebKit/Safari project by hiring away key people like Dave Hyatt: https://donmelton.com/2013/01/10/safari-is-released-to-the-world/ https://donmelton.com/2013/01/10/safari-is-released-to-the-w...