4 ms·

I mean pathological from a death avoidance stand point. For instance, if you are a marathon runner you are running far more than is necessary to contribute to

I mean pathological from a death avoidance stand point. For instance, if you are a marathon runner you are running far more than is necessary to contribute to a longer life span. I'm not a runner, but as a weight lifter I lift far more weight than is necessary to contribute to injury or death avoidance. That is the nature of sport. I don't know any old athletes who don't have pretty banged up bodies. I don't have peer reviewed research about hip replacement and number of miles per day, that comment was a bit more rhetorical than the way you are engaging with it, but I can give you peer reviewed evidence for heart damage: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119133/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119133/

throwawaymath 7y ago
That's a fair citation, however it comes with a caveat: while myocardial fibrosis (MF) is traditionally associated with an increased risk for arrhythmia and cardiac arrest due to muscle stiffness, this association is less clear in runners. The overall relationship between running and cardiac health is extremely positive, and more recent[1] research from the Mayo Clinic does not make the claim that MF incidence in high endurance athletes specifically indicates the same danger it does in non-active individuals. It treats it as an under-studied phenomenon to be sure, but calling it "damage" is not nuanced enough given the available data. __________ 1. https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30414-1/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)...
- wdewind 7y ago
  Sure I can buy all that, but It's Complicated, and I'm sure you know some runners who are running when they shouldn't be. For instance, I know of someone who had both hips replaced at the age of 25. This was probably primarily due to a genetic predisposition to developing OA, but the earliness and extremity of the onset were obviously impacted by excessive (5-10 miles 2x a day) running, which she continued against doctors orders. I'm not trying to damn an entire hobby: my point is exactly the opposite. People cope with being alive in a variety of ways, and most of those ways hurt you if not kept in balance. We shouldn't vilify video games just like we shouldn't vilify running.
  - chillwaves 7y ago
    Playing video games for 16 hours a day will have substantially more health detriments than anything a runner will do.
    - heavenlyblue 7y ago
      So will running 16 hours a day.
      - chillwaves 7y ago
        How many people can run for 16 hours a day? What % of the population? .00000000000000001%? What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day? So again, video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction, for the vast majority of people and in far worse ways. You all can play games as you please, the facts are plain.
        wdewind 7y ago
        > What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day? Honestly not a ton. It's really really difficult. Even pros struggle with substantially fewer hours than this. > video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction I'm not really convinced that's true. I don't know anyone who has torn a meniscus or developed arthritis playing video games. While mostly people who run don't develop a pathological relationship with running I stand by my argument that it's completely possible, and the effects on your body are comparably damaging, though in different ways. People also don't usually play video games for 16 hours a day, but sure, it happens. I think balance is required no matter what you are doing, even if the raw number of hours may be different. Let's broaden the discussion a little bit: think about how uncomfortable most adults are right now with e-sports, but glorify regular sports. That's fine, I have no problem with regular sports, but it's far from uncommon to hear something like "I just don't get it: my son actually enjoys watching other people play video games, what is the world coming to?" That same parent will then sit down and watch other people throw a ball around, and then sigh and shake their head as the announcers discuss yet another veteran of the sport who regularly forgets his wife's name or where he is. Being an elite athlete in any sport completely fucks you up, and yet we choose to ignore that and focus on the insane displays of superhuman ability. The larger point here is that any activity can be done pathologically, even, in some ways especially, the ones we glorify the most. A lot of our choice to focus on the positives of one activity and the negatives of another largely come down to personal taste.

throwawaymath 7y ago

That's a fair citation, however it comes with a caveat: while myocardial fibrosis (MF) is traditionally associated with an increased risk for arrhythmia and cardiac arrest due to muscle stiffness, this association is less clear in runners. The overall relationship between running and cardiac health is extremely positive, and more recent[1] research from the Mayo Clinic does not make the claim that MF incidence in high endurance athletes specifically indicates the same danger it does in non-active individuals. It treats it as an under-studied phenomenon to be sure, but calling it "damage" is not nuanced enough given the available data. __________ 1. https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)30414-1/fulltext https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(16)...

wdewind 7y ago
Sure I can buy all that, but It's Complicated, and I'm sure you know some runners who are running when they shouldn't be. For instance, I know of someone who had both hips replaced at the age of 25. This was probably primarily due to a genetic predisposition to developing OA, but the earliness and extremity of the onset were obviously impacted by excessive (5-10 miles 2x a day) running, which she continued against doctors orders. I'm not trying to damn an entire hobby: my point is exactly the opposite. People cope with being alive in a variety of ways, and most of those ways hurt you if not kept in balance. We shouldn't vilify video games just like we shouldn't vilify running.
- chillwaves 7y ago
  Playing video games for 16 hours a day will have substantially more health detriments than anything a runner will do.
  - heavenlyblue 7y ago
    So will running 16 hours a day.
    - chillwaves 7y ago
      How many people can run for 16 hours a day? What % of the population? .00000000000000001%? What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day? So again, video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction, for the vast majority of people and in far worse ways. You all can play games as you please, the facts are plain.
      - wdewind 7y ago
        > What % of the population can play video games for 16 hours a day? Honestly not a ton. It's really really difficult. Even pros struggle with substantially fewer hours than this. > video game addiction is substantially worse than a running addiction I'm not really convinced that's true. I don't know anyone who has torn a meniscus or developed arthritis playing video games. While mostly people who run don't develop a pathological relationship with running I stand by my argument that it's completely possible, and the effects on your body are comparably damaging, though in different ways. People also don't usually play video games for 16 hours a day, but sure, it happens. I think balance is required no matter what you are doing, even if the raw number of hours may be different. Let's broaden the discussion a little bit: think about how uncomfortable most adults are right now with e-sports, but glorify regular sports. That's fine, I have no problem with regular sports, but it's far from uncommon to hear something like "I just don't get it: my son actually enjoys watching other people play video games, what is the world coming to?" That same parent will then sit down and watch other people throw a ball around, and then sigh and shake their head as the announcers discuss yet another veteran of the sport who regularly forgets his wife's name or where he is. Being an elite athlete in any sport completely fucks you up, and yet we choose to ignore that and focus on the insane displays of superhuman ability. The larger point here is that any activity can be done pathologically, even, in some ways especially, the ones we glorify the most. A lot of our choice to focus on the positives of one activity and the negatives of another largely come down to personal taste.