13 ms·

If only the Forest Service sites could use their templates

britta 8y ago
The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ Both that Forest Service project and Federalist run on cloud.gov, which is a Platform as a Service operated by 18F. (I work for 18F but don't officially represent it here.)
- dpcx 8y ago
  https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript (<1% of users), but fortunately those users are typically aware of how to resolve the issue of their own creation. I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to ADA requirements).
    - dpcx 8y ago
      Thank you for the response. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was a requirement, simply that it seemed odd that there would be no fallback whatsoever. I guess I'm behind the times.
      - logfromblammo 8y ago
        No, you're not. The times are just circling back around to form over function again. Since we keep revisiting this, you might say that you're ahead of the times.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      > Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Strongly disagree. Having your page completely break instead of degrading gracefully puts up a barrier to those who cannot run JavaScript (for example, users with older, weaker computers).
      - Someone1234 8y ago
        People on "older, weaker computers" are likely running a browser we also don't support (<IE10) on an Operating System we don't support, and they'll likely see a TLS error before even hitting the load balancer (we don't support SSL or TLS 1.0). It is unlikely that there exists a subset of users with a modern enough computer to even hit our web servers that is under-powered to the point of not handling JavaScript. Our analytics definitely don't show this.
        eitland 8y ago
        > It is unlikely that there exists a subset of users with a modern enough computer to even hit our web servers that is under-powered to the point of not handling JavaScript. Our analytics definitely don't show this. Does your analytics correctly register hits from clients that doesn't support Javascript (I'm thinking about survivorship bias).
    - nulbyte 8y ago
  - msla 8y ago
    > https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript And it doesn't even work with Javascript.

The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ Both that Forest Service project and Federalist run on cloud.gov, which is a Platform as a Service operated by 18F. (I work for 18F but don't officially represent it here.)

dpcx 8y ago
https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript (<1% of users), but fortunately those users are typically aware of how to resolve the issue of their own creation. I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to ADA requirements).
  - dpcx 8y ago
    Thank you for the response. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was a requirement, simply that it seemed odd that there would be no fallback whatsoever. I guess I'm behind the times.
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      No, you're not. The times are just circling back around to form over function again. Since we keep revisiting this, you might say that you're ahead of the times.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Strongly disagree. Having your page completely break instead of degrading gracefully puts up a barrier to those who cannot run JavaScript (for example, users with older, weaker computers).
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      People on "older, weaker computers" are likely running a browser we also don't support (<IE10) on an Operating System we don't support, and they'll likely see a TLS error before even hitting the load balancer (we don't support SSL or TLS 1.0). It is unlikely that there exists a subset of users with a modern enough computer to even hit our web servers that is under-powered to the point of not handling JavaScript. Our analytics definitely don't show this.
      - eitland 8y ago
        > It is unlikely that there exists a subset of users with a modern enough computer to even hit our web servers that is under-powered to the point of not handling JavaScript. Our analytics definitely don't show this. Does your analytics correctly register hits from clients that doesn't support Javascript (I'm thinking about survivorship bias).
  - nulbyte 8y ago
- msla 8y ago
  > https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript And it doesn't even work with Javascript.