10 ms·

This is so interesting. These modern sites clash really hard with my mental visual of "Government technology." And it led me to this, which is maybe even more

This is so interesting. These modern sites clash really hard with my mental visual of "Government technology." And it led me to this, which is maybe even more interesting: https://federalist.18f.gov/ https://federalist.18f.gov/

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
It's not government if it's not printed in IBM Courier!
- NikolaNovak 7y ago
  Erm, IBM Plex, of course... ;-) https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex
timdiggerm 7y ago
If only the Forest Service sites could use their templates
- britta 7y ago
  The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ Both that Forest Service project and Federalist run on cloud.gov, which is a Platform as a Service operated by 18F. (I work for 18F but don't officially represent it here.)
  - dpcx 7y ago
    https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript (<1% of users), but fortunately those users are typically aware of how to resolve the issue of their own creation. I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to ADA requirements).
      - dpcx 7y ago
        Thank you for the response. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was a requirement, simply that it seemed odd that there would be no fallback whatsoever. I guess I'm behind the times.
        logfromblammo 7y ago
        No, you're not. The times are just circling back around to form over function again. Since we keep revisiting this, you might say that you're ahead of the times.
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        > Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Strongly disagree. Having your page completely break instead of degrading gracefully puts up a barrier to those who cannot run JavaScript (for example, users with older, weaker computers).
        Someone1234 7y ago
archgoon 7y ago
The USDS (US Digital Service) was born in the fire of the healthcare.gov fiasco, and several industry veterans from Google stepped in to fix the infrastructure issues they saw within the US Government. Currently, @Matt_Cutts is leading the org. I can only think that your comment brings a smile to his face.
- amaccuish 7y ago
  Also inspired by the UK version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Digital_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Digital_Service
- noir_lord 7y ago
  IIRC the USDS is also in part based on GDS[1] who did (and continue to do) a really good job at dragging parts of the government kicking and screaming into the future. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digital-service https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digit...
- president 7y ago
  Does anyone know what it's like working for the USDS? Curious what it's like to work for the Government but under the leadership of presumably a bunch of ex-Googlers.
  - SamWhited 7y ago
    I really wanted to work for the USDS for a while. I'd still like to, but the invasiveness of an SF-86 which is required for some reason even if you don't need a security clearance, drug testing (I'd pass, but I'm not okay with requiring one anyways), and the fact that I'd have to move to D.C. make the sacrifice a big thing to weigh against the public good you'd be able to do. It's a tough call.
    - eddietejeda 7y ago
      USDS's requirement to be in DC is a tough ask, but necessary given the work they do. At 18F, we travel to DC a couple of times a year, but we are mostly remote. There are significant hubs in SF, NYC, DC, and CHI, but the remote culture is the most successful I've seen.
saagarjha 7y ago
18F is great and I hope they end up "fixing" all of the government's websites.
eddietejeda 7y ago
Yup. I run Federalist at 18F and absolutely love the work, the challenge and colleagues. We do everything in the open, so feel free to follow our work here: https://github.com/18F/federalist https://github.com/18F/federalist We also implement the USWDS, which you can follow here: https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll Let me know if you have any questions!
- milquetoastaf 7y ago
  Are y'all hiring :D
- siavosh 7y ago
  Curious to hear if your group is still well supported budget wise?
  - eddietejeda 7y ago
    Although we are part of the government, we operate as a business unit that must pay for itself to exist. To do this, we have to charge other agencies for our services. My group is "cost-recoverable," meaning, that we are longer losing money and can reinvest back into the product. You will notice our Github activity picked up recently and even more significant changes are coming soon. So, I'd say we are in the best shape we've ever been.
    - bredren 7y ago
      Can you comment on what organizations are your biggest customers? Are you concerned about austerity measures / cutbacks affecting customer budgets?
      - freehunter 7y ago
        >Are you concerned about austerity measures / cutbacks affecting customer budgets? Isn't every business or organization concerned about various economic forces affecting their customer budgets?
karmelapple 7y ago
I’ve found Boston’s city websites [1] to have a nice user experience and fantastic branding that ties in not just all the city’s web properties, but also some official postal mail flyers from the city, printed placards and signage at City Hall, and more. I haven’t noticed this strong of a branding in other cities I’ve lived, but would love to see examples of others. Boston even maintains its code on github! [2] Their digital department also has a roadmap of what their initiatives are, and it’s communicated in what I think is such an easily digestible manner [3] Bravo to their digital team! [1] https://www.boston.gov/ https://www.boston.gov/ [2] https://github.com/CityOfBoston https://github.com/CityOfBoston [3] https://www.boston.gov/departments/digital-team/digital-team-roadmap https://www.boston.gov/departments/digital-team/digital-team...
andrewshadura 7y ago
Have you seen gov.uk?
- pastor_elm 7y ago
  no

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago

It's not government if it's not printed in IBM Courier!

NikolaNovak 7y ago
Erm, IBM Plex, of course... ;-) https://github.com/IBM/plex https://github.com/IBM/plex

timdiggerm 7y ago

If only the Forest Service sites could use their templates

britta 7y ago
The Forest Service worked with 18F on this Open Forest project to enable people to buy Christmas tree permits online, which uses United States Web Design System components: https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests You can learn more about that project here, including the open source code: https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/what-we-deliver/forest-service/ - and a few blog posts about it: https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ https://18f.gsa.gov/tags/forest-service/ Both that Forest Service project and Federalist run on cloud.gov, which is a Platform as a Service operated by 18F. (I work for 18F but don't officially represent it here.)
- dpcx 7y ago
  https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests https://openforest.fs.usda.gov/christmas-trees/forests has a pretty heavy dependency on Javascript (read: there's no fallback to anything non-javascript, so I get a white page). It feels like that goes against some of the things that 18F is about.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Accessibility technologies now fully support a JS enabled web, with accessibility standards following suit. That leaves only those who have voluntarily disabled JavaScript (<1% of users), but fortunately those users are typically aware of how to resolve the issue of their own creation. I've worked on public facing government websites (not 18F). We simply don't support this edge case, and our legal department supports our legal right to do so (in particular in relation to ADA requirements).
    - dpcx 7y ago
      Thank you for the response. I wasn't trying to suggest that it was a requirement, simply that it seemed odd that there would be no fallback whatsoever. I guess I'm behind the times.
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        No, you're not. The times are just circling back around to form over function again. Since we keep revisiting this, you might say that you're ahead of the times.
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      > Pages don't need a fallback to non-Javascript in 2019. Strongly disagree. Having your page completely break instead of degrading gracefully puts up a barrier to those who cannot run JavaScript (for example, users with older, weaker computers).
      - Someone1234 7y ago

archgoon 7y ago

The USDS (US Digital Service) was born in the fire of the healthcare.gov fiasco, and several industry veterans from Google stepped in to fix the infrastructure issues they saw within the US Government. Currently, @Matt_Cutts is leading the org. I can only think that your comment brings a smile to his face.

amaccuish 7y ago
Also inspired by the UK version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Digital_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Digital_Service
noir_lord 7y ago
IIRC the USDS is also in part based on GDS[1] who did (and continue to do) a really good job at dragging parts of the government kicking and screaming into the future. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digital-service https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digit...
president 7y ago
Does anyone know what it's like working for the USDS? Curious what it's like to work for the Government but under the leadership of presumably a bunch of ex-Googlers.
- SamWhited 7y ago
  I really wanted to work for the USDS for a while. I'd still like to, but the invasiveness of an SF-86 which is required for some reason even if you don't need a security clearance, drug testing (I'd pass, but I'm not okay with requiring one anyways), and the fact that I'd have to move to D.C. make the sacrifice a big thing to weigh against the public good you'd be able to do. It's a tough call.
  - eddietejeda 7y ago
    USDS's requirement to be in DC is a tough ask, but necessary given the work they do. At 18F, we travel to DC a couple of times a year, but we are mostly remote. There are significant hubs in SF, NYC, DC, and CHI, but the remote culture is the most successful I've seen.

saagarjha 7y ago

18F is great and I hope they end up "fixing" all of the government's websites.

eddietejeda 7y ago

Yup. I run Federalist at 18F and absolutely love the work, the challenge and colleagues. We do everything in the open, so feel free to follow our work here: https://github.com/18F/federalist https://github.com/18F/federalist We also implement the USWDS, which you can follow here: https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll https://github.com/18F/federalist-uswds-jekyll Let me know if you have any questions!

milquetoastaf 7y ago
Are y'all hiring :D
siavosh 7y ago
Curious to hear if your group is still well supported budget wise?
- eddietejeda 7y ago
  Although we are part of the government, we operate as a business unit that must pay for itself to exist. To do this, we have to charge other agencies for our services. My group is "cost-recoverable," meaning, that we are longer losing money and can reinvest back into the product. You will notice our Github activity picked up recently and even more significant changes are coming soon. So, I'd say we are in the best shape we've ever been.
  - bredren 7y ago
    Can you comment on what organizations are your biggest customers? Are you concerned about austerity measures / cutbacks affecting customer budgets?
    - freehunter 7y ago
      >Are you concerned about austerity measures / cutbacks affecting customer budgets? Isn't every business or organization concerned about various economic forces affecting their customer budgets?

karmelapple 7y ago

I’ve found Boston’s city websites [1] to have a nice user experience and fantastic branding that ties in not just all the city’s web properties, but also some official postal mail flyers from the city, printed placards and signage at City Hall, and more. I haven’t noticed this strong of a branding in other cities I’ve lived, but would love to see examples of others. Boston even maintains its code on github! [2] Their digital department also has a roadmap of what their initiatives are, and it’s communicated in what I think is such an easily digestible manner [3] Bravo to their digital team! [1] https://www.boston.gov/ https://www.boston.gov/ [2] https://github.com/CityOfBoston https://github.com/CityOfBoston [3] https://www.boston.gov/departments/digital-team/digital-team-roadmap https://www.boston.gov/departments/digital-team/digital-team...

andrewshadura 7y ago

Have you seen gov.uk?

pastor_elm 7y ago
no