4 ms·

It is an impressive engineering feat, and certainly better than the Android ones that just pass analog through the USB-C jack, but it's worth noting that this D

It is an impressive engineering feat, and certainly better than the Android ones that just pass analog through the USB-C jack, but it's worth noting that this DAC performs worse than what it replaced [1]. Dynamics have less range, there's more THD, and output impedance is lower, so it's harder to drive heavier headphones. I noticed a difference in clarity using Audio-Technica ATH-M50s and Beyerdynamic DT 990 250Ω. Specifically, the Beyerdynamics could be driven "good enough" for me with the iPhone SE jack, but I wasn't happy with how they sounded on the Lightning dongle. [1] https://ifixit.org/blog/8448/apple-audio-adapter-teardown/ https://ifixit.org/blog/8448/apple-audio-adapter-teardown/

TBastiani 8y ago
My experience is similar. I recently bought a USB-C to DC jack adapter from Apple for use on my Pixel 2 phone. The sound on my SoundMagic E10 was flat and mushy. Even though the earphones are "only" rated as 46 Ohm.
rhinoceraptor 8y ago
My pair of DT 770 Ms sound awful with the lightning to USB adapter, even though they're only 80 ohms. But I guess if you're using high impedance headphones it comes with the territory that you may need an amp. For me, they sound good driven from my iPad pro and a USB C charging/headphone adapter so I listen from that at my desk.
dmitrygr 8y ago
> certainly better than > the Android ones that > just pass analog through > the USB-C jack Almost none of the USB-C ones actually do that. Most of them actually also include DACs. the specification that allowed actual analog output through the USB-C port was not widely adapted.
holy_city 8y ago
The link to the measurements from your source: https://kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm https://kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-qualit... According to those measurements the adaptor's DAC is fantastic, especially for a $9 part. And in the spirit of anecdotes, the old iPhone DACs were notoriously hissy and weak, and if you're buying high impedance headphones you have no business plugging that into a phone's headphone jack... spend the $20-50 on an amp/DAC and call it a day. Just a bigger dongle.
- neves 8y ago
  Where you can find a good amp/DAC for $20?
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Sure, it's not a bad DAC and I'm happy with the sound on wired IEMs. It's just that I could drive my high impedance headphones straight from an iPhone SE and I can't with an iPhone 8. I lost functionality.
xvector 8y ago
> I noticed a difference in clarity using Audio-Technica ATH-M50s and Beyerdynamic DT 990 250Ω. Specifically, the Beyerdynamics could be driven "good enough" for me with the iPhone SE jack, but I wasn't happy with how they sounded on the Lightning dongle. Scientifically speaking, it should be noted that the adapter performs exceedingly well to the point of audible transparency[1]. You are not going to hear the distortion components as they lie below 90 dB. The fact of the matter is that your ears simply cannot be trusted, not when it comes to discerning differences in DACs and amps. There is a beautiful read[2] that illustrates this by NwAvGuy, it's worth checking out even for non-audiophile. And Xiph's Digital Show and Tell[3] (again, a must-read) tells us that the 44kHz of the dongle is more than enough for audible transparency to humans. The differences you hear are likely due to incorrectly matched volumes. If you volume-match to a fraction of a decibel, you probably would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test. There are other potential differences like a different impedance etc but these should only effect a very small subset of IEMs, let alone your headphones. [1]: https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-qu... [2]: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html [3]: https://wiki.xiph.org/Videos/Digital_Show_and_Tell https://wiki.xiph.org/Videos/Digital_Show_and_Tell
- PascLeRasc 8y ago
  Sure, the Lightning DAC performs well. But there's better-performing DACs already out there, that I assume cost the same. This is objectively a downgrade, unless you're using super low impedance IEMs. Regarding volume matching, with the SE headphone jack I could put the iOS volume around 40% and very much enjoy the sound. With the dongle I lost a lot of low and high end at 40%, and to bring them back to my typical volumes required iOS volume to be around 60-70%, and caused distortion around the low-mids. Yes, I tried another dongle. I'm perfectly comfortable with trusting my ears, since that's the whole point of audio - making my ears happy.
  - xvector 8y ago
    > But there's better-performing DACs already out there, that I assume cost the same. Could you mention any better-performing DACs for $9? AFAIK none exist, which is in part the point of the linked post. > I'm perfectly comfortable with trusting my ears, Sure, but then you can't really make objective statements like "this distorts" when measurements are to the contrary and all modern audio science tells us your ears are probably wrong about minute differences like these.
k0stas 8y ago
> output impedance is lower, so it's harder to drive heavier headphones That is backwards. Lower output impedance is better as more power is delivered to the load all other things being equal.

TBastiani 8y ago

My experience is similar. I recently bought a USB-C to DC jack adapter from Apple for use on my Pixel 2 phone. The sound on my SoundMagic E10 was flat and mushy. Even though the earphones are "only" rated as 46 Ohm.

rhinoceraptor 8y ago

My pair of DT 770 Ms sound awful with the lightning to USB adapter, even though they're only 80 ohms. But I guess if you're using high impedance headphones it comes with the territory that you may need an amp. For me, they sound good driven from my iPad pro and a USB C charging/headphone adapter so I listen from that at my desk.

dmitrygr 8y ago

> certainly better than > the Android ones that > just pass analog through > the USB-C jack Almost none of the USB-C ones actually do that. Most of them actually also include DACs. the specification that allowed actual analog output through the USB-C port was not widely adapted.

holy_city 8y ago

The link to the measurements from your source: https://kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm https://kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-qualit... According to those measurements the adaptor's DAC is fantastic, especially for a $9 part. And in the spirit of anecdotes, the old iPhone DACs were notoriously hissy and weak, and if you're buying high impedance headphones you have no business plugging that into a phone's headphone jack... spend the $20-50 on an amp/DAC and call it a day. Just a bigger dongle.

neves 8y ago
Where you can find a good amp/DAC for $20?
PascLeRasc 8y ago
Sure, it's not a bad DAC and I'm happy with the sound on wired IEMs. It's just that I could drive my high impedance headphones straight from an iPhone SE and I can't with an iPhone 8. I lost functionality.

xvector 8y ago

> I noticed a difference in clarity using Audio-Technica ATH-M50s and Beyerdynamic DT 990 250Ω. Specifically, the Beyerdynamics could be driven "good enough" for me with the iPhone SE jack, but I wasn't happy with how they sounded on the Lightning dongle. Scientifically speaking, it should be noted that the adapter performs exceedingly well to the point of audible transparency[1]. You are not going to hear the distortion components as they lie below 90 dB. The fact of the matter is that your ears simply cannot be trusted, not when it comes to discerning differences in DACs and amps. There is a beautiful read[2] that illustrates this by NwAvGuy, it's worth checking out even for non-audiophile. And Xiph's Digital Show and Tell[3] (again, a must-read) tells us that the 44kHz of the dongle is more than enough for audible transparency to humans. The differences you hear are likely due to incorrectly matched volumes. If you volume-match to a fraction of a decibel, you probably would not be able to tell the difference in a blind test. There are other potential differences like a different impedance etc but these should only effect a very small subset of IEMs, let alone your headphones. [1]: https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-qu... [2]: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html [3]: https://wiki.xiph.org/Videos/Digital_Show_and_Tell https://wiki.xiph.org/Videos/Digital_Show_and_Tell

PascLeRasc 8y ago
Sure, the Lightning DAC performs well. But there's better-performing DACs already out there, that I assume cost the same. This is objectively a downgrade, unless you're using super low impedance IEMs. Regarding volume matching, with the SE headphone jack I could put the iOS volume around 40% and very much enjoy the sound. With the dongle I lost a lot of low and high end at 40%, and to bring them back to my typical volumes required iOS volume to be around 60-70%, and caused distortion around the low-mids. Yes, I tried another dongle. I'm perfectly comfortable with trusting my ears, since that's the whole point of audio - making my ears happy.
- xvector 8y ago
  > But there's better-performing DACs already out there, that I assume cost the same. Could you mention any better-performing DACs for $9? AFAIK none exist, which is in part the point of the linked post. > I'm perfectly comfortable with trusting my ears, Sure, but then you can't really make objective statements like "this distorts" when measurements are to the contrary and all modern audio science tells us your ears are probably wrong about minute differences like these.

k0stas 8y ago

> output impedance is lower, so it's harder to drive heavier headphones That is backwards. Lower output impedance is better as more power is delivered to the load all other things being equal.