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Eye-balling the numbers, you'd pick up less than a factor of 5. I encourage you to look at the details and report back. You should also correct for the natura

Eye-balling the numbers, you'd pick up less than a factor of 5. I encourage you to look at the details and report back. You should also correct for the natural resources that Norway has the Australia lacks, like fish (almost 10% of Norway's exports inclusive of oil!).

the_duke 8y ago
Australia doesn't have ocean access and fishing industries?
- jessriedel 8y ago
  Fish makes up just 0.13% of Australian exports https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/ https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/ Next time, consider looking the number up yourself and reporting back rather than just asking the question and so forcing me to look up the answer for you (or else look like I'm ignoring the issue).
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    Fish being a minor part of Australian exports is a claim with absolutely no relationship to whether or not Australia has fish. You claimed it didn't, and that is not credible.
    - jessriedel 8y ago
      In context, my claim was clearly that Australia did not have access to fishing resources that had economic effects that were remotely comparable to its total exports.
barrkel 8y ago
Energy is about 50% of Norway's exports, and minerals + energy is about 60% of Australia's exports. These are extractive industries that are structurally similar. Norway exports about $50 billion USD / year. Australia exports about $120 billion USD / year. This is probably why the Australian is comparing the situation with Norway. https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/frydenberg/speeches/mining-and-australian-economy-australian-governments-priorities-mining https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/frydenberg/sp... https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/exports-of-oil-and-gas/ https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/expo...
- jessriedel 8y ago
  I'm aware that comparison he's trying to draw, but the comparison has to be fair. First, most obviously, Australia has almost 5 times the population of Norway! Second, if we're going to start increasing the scope of exports we're including, to make a fair comparison we should include minerals in Norway's total (not just Australia's), and we should really include other resources that Norway has that Australia doesn't (rather than just picking a category where Australia has larger exports). What are the numbers in this case? Again, I think this works out to a per capita endowment of that is still much, much larger for Norway, but you'd actually have to do a bit of work to check.
  - barrkel 8y ago
    Compare respective sovereign wealth funds: https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2016/09/24/how-to-not-spend-it https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2016/09/24/h... IMO you're on a hiding to nothing trying to support your position that the comparison isn't valid. The economic export situation is structurally quite similar between Norway and Australia, and the difference in how they've handled it is vast, far greater than any multiple in population.
    - jessriedel 8y ago
      Huh? No one disputes that the countries handle things differently. But if you want to say that one way of handling things is better, and the only evidence you give are better outcomes, then inputs ought to be similar. But if one country has 30 times or 3 times the input (corresponding to oil or most natural resources, respectively), then this is a very poor comparison unless you do a lot more work to correct for it.
      - jpatokal 8y ago
        Here's a simple way of looking at it: Norway has converted its resources into a $1 trillion pot of funds, while Australia has, to a first approximation and over a longer time frame, zero or less (the country runs a budget deficit). So it doesn't really matter if the input is 3 or 30 times bigger if the function converting it into output is broken.

the_duke 8y ago

Australia doesn't have ocean access and fishing industries?

jessriedel 8y ago
Fish makes up just 0.13% of Australian exports https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/ https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/aus/ Next time, consider looking the number up yourself and reporting back rather than just asking the question and so forcing me to look up the answer for you (or else look like I'm ignoring the issue).
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  Fish being a minor part of Australian exports is a claim with absolutely no relationship to whether or not Australia has fish. You claimed it didn't, and that is not credible.
  - jessriedel 8y ago
    In context, my claim was clearly that Australia did not have access to fishing resources that had economic effects that were remotely comparable to its total exports.

barrkel 8y ago

Energy is about 50% of Norway's exports, and minerals + energy is about 60% of Australia's exports. These are extractive industries that are structurally similar. Norway exports about $50 billion USD / year. Australia exports about $120 billion USD / year. This is probably why the Australian is comparing the situation with Norway. https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/frydenberg/speeches/mining-and-australian-economy-australian-governments-priorities-mining https://www.minister.industry.gov.au/ministers/frydenberg/sp... https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/exports-of-oil-and-gas/ https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/expo...

jessriedel 8y ago
I'm aware that comparison he's trying to draw, but the comparison has to be fair. First, most obviously, Australia has almost 5 times the population of Norway! Second, if we're going to start increasing the scope of exports we're including, to make a fair comparison we should include minerals in Norway's total (not just Australia's), and we should really include other resources that Norway has that Australia doesn't (rather than just picking a category where Australia has larger exports). What are the numbers in this case? Again, I think this works out to a per capita endowment of that is still much, much larger for Norway, but you'd actually have to do a bit of work to check.
- barrkel 8y ago
  Compare respective sovereign wealth funds: https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2016/09/24/how-to-not-spend-it https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2016/09/24/h... IMO you're on a hiding to nothing trying to support your position that the comparison isn't valid. The economic export situation is structurally quite similar between Norway and Australia, and the difference in how they've handled it is vast, far greater than any multiple in population.
  - jessriedel 8y ago
    Huh? No one disputes that the countries handle things differently. But if you want to say that one way of handling things is better, and the only evidence you give are better outcomes, then inputs ought to be similar. But if one country has 30 times or 3 times the input (corresponding to oil or most natural resources, respectively), then this is a very poor comparison unless you do a lot more work to correct for it.
    - jpatokal 8y ago
      Here's a simple way of looking at it: Norway has converted its resources into a $1 trillion pot of funds, while Australia has, to a first approximation and over a longer time frame, zero or less (the country runs a budget deficit). So it doesn't really matter if the input is 3 or 30 times bigger if the function converting it into output is broken.