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Gum bacteria implicated in Alzheimer's and other diseases
- molecule 8y agoRecent discussion of the cited research: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19596915 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19596915
- tmp12938 8y agoAs if you didn't need another reason to floss! Always.
- Lio 8y agoPersonally I'm not a fan of flossing. Always seems to make my gums bleed. I much prefer using a waterpick it's gentler and seems more effective too.
- jerf 8y agoIf flossing makes your gums bleed, you're not flossing enough. No, this is not a "No True Scotsman" sort of argument or some sort of sarcastic joke; that's really what it means. It should stop bleeding in just a couple of days of regular flossing. If it doesn't, your mouth may be indicating another problem.
- Someone1234 8y agoThat was my experience too. When I first started flossing I'd get some bleeding (in no small part because my lack of flossing before caused the gum at the bottom of the tooth to be inflamed). Bleeding is very infrequent now. I personally use those plastic flosser sticks. I cannot figure out just the string. But I floss once a day every day and have for years. Just remember to floss each tooth twice in a V shape. You need to do both sides of the tooth and the bottom.
- astura 8y agoEither not flossing enough or using bad technique. I'm not a big flosser, so my gums always bleed a bit when I do it myself, but my dental hygienist always flosses me after a cleaning and she never makes the gums bleed.
- Lio 8y agoSorry but I'm not going to start flossing when I can use a Waterpik instead. There's just no need for it.
- kevingadd 8y agoDepending on your genetics and general dental health, yeah, flossing isn't always required. Not saying "don't floss" but I made other changes to my dental habits (how i brush, etc) and rarely need to floss - dentist says everything's fine. Obviously though if your dentist is saying 'floss more', then floss more. There are also little dental picks you can get that you can use to clean between teeth without flossing, though I find them hard to use. If you're having trouble with regular flossing definitely ask your dentist for alternatives.
- Lio 8y agoI have an alternative, as mentioned in the comment. I use a Waterpik. It's gentler than sticking a piece of plastic string between your teeth and more effective at getting trapped material and plaque out.
- e40 8y agoEither you are flossing wrong or you haven't gotten over the hump or you have gum disease. I'd talk with your dentist. Having said that, I love my waterpik. When I floss and rinse, it still flushes things from between my teeth that flossing couldn't get rid of. I highly recommend both!
- mc32 8y agoAlso about a third of the brands of tooth floss use potentially carcinogenic PFAS (Teflon like substance).
- hammock 8y agoGood grief I had not seen that news. They literally put that crap everywhere. Thanks for the heads up.
- wpasc 8y agoI also had seen this, have you found any good substitutes that provide a non awful experience? I tried Tom's floss as a replacement but it was very thick and non a good substitute.
- snark42 8y agoI've enjoyed Radius Silk Floss (https://madebyradius.com/collections/all/products/natural-biodegradable-silk-floss https://madebyradius.com/collections/all/products/natural-bi...) but I haven't tried Tom's so I can't really compare.
- mc32 8y agoI’m using Dr Tung’s which uses bee’s and other vegetable oil derived waxes. The flavoring is also naturally derived. It’s not as smooth as others (but smoothness = less effective at removing plaque), so it may take some getting used to (esp if the tooth gaps are small).
- abawany 8y agoA mouthwash with cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC) might help with gum health. Crest makes a version with CPC and Hydrogen Peroxide that was recommended by a dentist at one point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetylpyridinium_chloride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetylpyridinium_chloride Edits: spelling + link.
- dsego 8y agoI've had good results with chlorhexidine moutwash and toothpaste (curasept).
- pazimzadeh 8y ago>Flossing has quietly lost its place among recommendations for daily health, at least as prescribed in the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, which are issued every five years by the U.S. departments of Health and Human Services and Agriculture. and >"In large epidemiological studies, the evidence for flossing turns out to be fairly weak," says Tim Iafolla, a dentist with the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research, which is part of the National Institutes of Health. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/02/488378699/does-flossing-help-or-not-the-evidence-is-mixed-at-best https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/02/4883786...
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI wonder then what is an adequate means of reducing plaque. I never get cavities, but my teeth are starting to see the signs of having problems with plaque, so I wonder what a good option is.
- astura 8y agoBrushing your teeth?
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoWell yes, but that's not enough to prevent plaque buildup, especially in hard to reach areas of your mouth. Apparently floss isn't either, so I'm wondering what is.
- mntmoss 8y agoI've been in a similar situation(never a cavity) and started getting some warnings from my dentist about sore gums and decay years ago, which led to some self-studies. They have gone something like this: * Reducing the source of decay is #1, especially acidity. Swap out coffee, tea and soda for water more frequently and you get a huge boost immediately. * If #1 fails you can still aim to reduce acidity over time with e.g. having more milk or immediately brushing with toothpaste. Milk's proported function in "building healthy teeth" is probably more attributable to this rinsing property than any of the nutritional aspects. * I experimented with primarily flossing over brushing. Even though the crevices were clean, gum soreness went up overall. The opposite way around, primarily brushing with occasional flossing, the plaque can build up somewhat, but it does not result in pain. * Yes, supplementation can do something here. I went in cycles on and off Vitamin D3, and pain went up off it and down once on it again. Anyway, I have managed to quit the beverages, and occasional brushing with less occasional flossing seems to be doing the trick.
- dctoedt 8y agoAfter many years of flossing, and with my (very-conservative) dentist's tentative approval, last year I switched to using small interdental brushes [0] each time I brush, which is more convenient. I rinse the little brushes every time and use new brushes once per week. I use two sizes (fine and wide) because two particular teeth are tightly packed together. At my last checkup my dentist said it was fine to keep using the interdental brushes in lieu of flossing. [0] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00873H7AS https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00873H7AS (I get nothing from this link; like me, you might need different sizes).
- JimiofEden 8y agoAny thoughts on the environmental impact on floss vs using and disposing these brushes once a week? I use dental floss regularly, but I have been thinking that it's sure odd that I throw away little pieces of (what I think is) plastic everyday without thinking twice about it.
- dctoedt 8y ago> Any thoughts on the environmental impact on floss vs using and disposing these brushes once a week? I'm guessing that to a first approximation it's probably a wash, or very close to it — and the brushes might even be better than floss in terms of total weight and volume of plastic per week. (I haven't tried measuring either quantity.)
- MegaButts 8y agoWhile certainly a larger initial investment, if disposable waste if your concern you should try a waterpik. https://www.amazon.com/Waterpik-Accepted-WP-660-Aquarius-Flosser/dp/B00HFQQ0VU?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Waterpik-Accepted-WP-660-Aquarius-Flo... They work great, it's roughly as good as flossing (depending on who you ask it's worse or better), and it's easy with nothing to throw away. There are cheaper models as well, that's just the one I have and it works great.
- pacala 8y ago
- emmanuel_1234 8y agoFlossing really strike me as an American thing. You can buy dental floss anywhere, but only in the US do you hear it's the most important thing ever, probably because of the really high sugar consumption.
- meko 8y agoAmericans place a ton of emphasis on oral care. Most of middle class and above get braces as children; many going as far to get corrective procedures (affectionately referred to as 'headgear').
- rikelmens 8y agoUse chamomile + sage tea (or oil) as mouth wash.
- makeszerosense 8y agoFolks here downvote anything that isn't approved by Big Pharma. HN is too intellectual for its own good.
- GordonS 8y agoNo sources, or at least an explanation of the reasoning for this suggestion?
- detritus 8y agoI would be quite interested to hear of any useful information about 'oil pulling' as I believe it to be called. I tried it a couple of times a couple of months ago as my partner had left almond oil in the bathroom, so thought I'd give it a go whilst I showered. I couldn't really feel any benefit.
- a3n 8y agoSo people with full dentures, as a population, might be less prone to Alzheimer's? There no longer being any breaks in the gums.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoThe question there would be what damage was caused while the denturization was ongoing - if it was decades of slowly pulling teeth, that doesn't strike me as evidence of excellent hygiene.
- gnoppa 8y agoCorrelation =/= causation. I would argue that the bacteria shows up AFTER the body has been damaged through a lack of nutrition/minerals/vitamins/probiotics/etc. and an overload of toxins.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago> and an overload of toxins Which ones?
- tuxracer 8y ago"No, correlation does not imply causation, but it sure as hell provides a hint." https://slate.com/technology/2012/10/correlation-does-not-imply-causation-how-the-internet-fell-in-love-with-a-stats-class-cliche.html https://slate.com/technology/2012/10/correlation-does-not-im... > I would argue that the bacteria shows up AFTER the body has been damaged through...an overload of toxins Not sure what this is based on. What does "toxins" even mean in this context?
- tasty_freeze 8y agoWhen this comes up, my stock answer is: No, correlation is not causation, but it is correlated with causation.
- tabtab 8y agoBacteria are relatively easy to spot. If Alzheimers sufferers have more of a given bacteria in their brain than non-sufferers, that should have stood out many decades ago. I'm missing something here.
- bluGill 8y agoI've seen reports of correlation for many years. The problem is working out the chain - there are many other correlations that have been noted for years that don't seem to mean anything though. I floss: it might not help, but so far nobody has suggested how it can hurt.
- btilly 8y agoRecent research suggests that our brains attack bacteria with amyloid beta. The result of a low-level bacterial infection is therefore not a lot of bacteria, but ever growing amounts of amyloid beta plaques. Which are easy to spot. After that, it is a question of what kinds of bacteria attack brains. Until recently, the prevailing theory was that the amyloid beta plaques were themselves the cause of Alzheimers. As a result we spent an insane amount of money developing a variety of drugs that would clear/prevent those plaques. They did reduce the plaques, but did absolutely nothing for the disease. However with virtually all research money devoted to this theory, and all top researchers on record as believing it, alternative theories fought an uphill battle for acceptance. The old theory is still conventional wisdom and a lot of research efforts are focused on it. But there is mounting evidence for the infectious model. The result is a classic paradigm shift in Kuhn's sense of the word where researchers in each paradigm literally speak past the other. Each regarding their theory as proven. To someone who thinks that infectious disease is the problem, the fact that mouth bacteria have been found in the brain, plus a correlation between gum disease and Alzheimer's, is a smoking gun for causation. To someone who thinks that amyloid beta is the problem, it is an interesting correlation but not compelling enough to overturn the prevailing theory.
- tabtab 8y agoSo you are saying that the actual bacteria found in the brain is relatively small such that it's been hard to tell if and how amyloid beta relates to it.