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I've noticed, and apparently the statistics as well, that this trend turns around the age of 32 to 34 for men. Men usually go for women 3 to 4 years younger tha

I've noticed, and apparently the statistics as well, that this trend turns around the age of 32 to 34 for men. Men usually go for women 3 to 4 years younger than themselves. Which is around the age that women need to choose whether to procreate or not. If you're a 28 year old woman without a partner you only have a few more years of being physically optimal to give birth to a healthy child. So the average-looking men suddenly become more interesting. They have a career going, they are stable, aren't womanizers, and won't gather too much attention from the competition. I'm definitely average looking and I didn't get much attention in my late 20s. Only in my 30s I started getting attention from women who would formerly only go with the types of men they now avoided like the plague. One of those guys is a good friend of mine. Great looking guy, just a great person if you're... not a woman. But he's the "bad boy" women fell for when he was in his 20s. Now he's in his 30s and still playing his old game. Take a pick: Option #1: An 9/10 looking 6,2ft tall guy who had over 100 sexual partners, constantly plays the seduction game just to get laid, is constantly flirted with by younger women, can't hold a conversation unless it's about sex, booze, or soccer, still goes to clubs several times a week. Option #2: A 7/10 looking 6ft tall guy who had 4 sexual partners in his entire life (all longer-term relationships), can hold a conversation, has female friends, worked on his career instead of being in clubs 5 times a week. Sure, there are still women who fall for him. His most recent relationships were women in their early to mid 20s. He's actually trying to settle down and find a long-term partner, but he has no clue how. The last 5 of them he fell in love with, all left him hanging just a few weeks into the relationship. I am in my 30s and when I was on dating apps I'd suddenly get a ton of matches. Obviously also from women who are like my friend: promiscuous (no judgment here) women who, in their 20s, got pregnant and were left by the father.

treis 8y ago
>I am in my 30s and when I was on dating apps I'd suddenly get a ton of matches. Which is another problem men in their 20s face. They're competing with men in their 30s for the same women. There's simply a larger number of men trying to date a smaller number of women. The numbers mean someone gets left out.
- antisthenes 8y ago
  Historically, not all men (or women, for that matter) procreated and I think that's OK, given the current state of overpopulation. Many men also died young at war, before being able to procreate. I think we can all agree that less wars is a universally good thing. Even in western cultures where monogamy was pretty strictly enforced by the church and society, I doubt that more than 80% of men procreated (wish I could cite sources, but there doesn't seem to be good data about this) We also need to do away with the stigma that you can't have a fulfilling, productive and contributive life without children.
  - treis 8y ago
    In a monogamous society that has roughly equal men and women, everyone has the opportunity to reproduce. We're talking about a specific demographic that is struggling. In other words, those 18-29 men not having sex now (probably) will when they become 30-35. By that age most people are settling down into monogamy. And those men will be (probably) be in a better economic situation and therefore more desirable as mates.
  - dexen 8y ago
    You have significantly over-estimated the procreational success rate of men. Consider this research[1] - in the ancient past, the rate of long-term descendants was seventeen women to one man. Note that this is about long-term, multi-generational success, so the rate was higher in each single generation. [1] https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success
    - antisthenes 8y ago
      Yes, in the ancient past. If you read my post carefully, you'll see I only estimated the percentage for societies where monogamy is enforced (either through peer pressure, religion, or both) I also did not cite the source you did, because I consider it of enough poor quality to be unreliable in debate.
- gnicholas 8y ago
everdrive 8y ago
Similar experience here. No one prepared me for the roller-coaster effect of subjective male attractiveness. (I'm a Man) I've always felt that you could break it up pretty well by relative status. Here's how it went for me. - 6th grade - extraordinarily unattractive to the opposite sex. - 8th grade - not outwardly reviled. - 9th grade - outwardly reviled again. - 12th grade - actually dating, with a bit of interest here or there. - Freshman year of college - lower relative interest. - Senior year of college - enough girls are interested that they're fighting with each other. - 1st year in the workforce - outwardly reviled again! - 5-10 years into the workforce - hard say, got married, so I must have been doing something right. So, did I change much between 8th and 9th grade? Or between 12th grade and freshman year of college? No, obviously not, but my status relative to the bellcurve of available men did change quite a bit. This was most evident from my senior year to college to my first year in the workforce. I went from amazing, to worthless all due to graduation! Please bear in mind, I'm not complaining about the nature of female preferences here. However, I do wish someone had explained that this would occur, and also why it would occur. I remember being quite surprised at the time.
- raducu 8y ago
  Sorry to break it to you, but women chose you not because you're suddenly more attractive than your friend, but because they've had 15 years or so to learn that your friend won't settle down and their biological clock is ringing real hard in their 30s. It's quite cynical, I know.
  - everdrive 8y ago
    I had the most interest from women when I was 21-22, in my senior year of college. How does your statement explain my result?
    - raducu 8y ago
      Because among college men, the more senior you are, the higher status; also the single women of your age either date you or they date some guy younger(naah, women don't do that) or they date some guy outside of college(a bit harder) -- plus single women feel that it's "now or never" since it's the final year in college. It USED to be be the same thing when you were in highschool before tinder and social media: as a male, the more senior the higher status you had -- i.e. 9th grader males will just drool at their female coleagues going out with more senior males, until in 12th grade you finally hit payday. Not so anymore because tinder and social media allow females to reach a much broader male audience. It's the same thing with women in their thirties -- they notice they get a lot less male attention -- first the bad boys stop noticing them and a couple of years later even the nicest of guys won't give them that sweet validating attention women crave, so the smart ones settle down with a nice guy in her early thirties, the not so smart ones end up basically cat ladies.

treis 8y ago

>I am in my 30s and when I was on dating apps I'd suddenly get a ton of matches. Which is another problem men in their 20s face. They're competing with men in their 30s for the same women. There's simply a larger number of men trying to date a smaller number of women. The numbers mean someone gets left out.

antisthenes 8y ago
Historically, not all men (or women, for that matter) procreated and I think that's OK, given the current state of overpopulation. Many men also died young at war, before being able to procreate. I think we can all agree that less wars is a universally good thing. Even in western cultures where monogamy was pretty strictly enforced by the church and society, I doubt that more than 80% of men procreated (wish I could cite sources, but there doesn't seem to be good data about this) We also need to do away with the stigma that you can't have a fulfilling, productive and contributive life without children.
- treis 8y ago
  In a monogamous society that has roughly equal men and women, everyone has the opportunity to reproduce. We're talking about a specific demographic that is struggling. In other words, those 18-29 men not having sex now (probably) will when they become 30-35. By that age most people are settling down into monogamy. And those men will be (probably) be in a better economic situation and therefore more desirable as mates.
- dexen 8y ago
  You have significantly over-estimated the procreational success rate of men. Consider this research[1] - in the ancient past, the rate of long-term descendants was seventeen women to one man. Note that this is about long-term, multi-generational success, so the rate was higher in each single generation. [1] https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success
  - antisthenes 8y ago
    Yes, in the ancient past. If you read my post carefully, you'll see I only estimated the percentage for societies where monogamy is enforced (either through peer pressure, religion, or both) I also did not cite the source you did, because I consider it of enough poor quality to be unreliable in debate.
gnicholas 8y ago

everdrive 8y ago

Similar experience here. No one prepared me for the roller-coaster effect of subjective male attractiveness. (I'm a Man) I've always felt that you could break it up pretty well by relative status. Here's how it went for me. - 6th grade - extraordinarily unattractive to the opposite sex. - 8th grade - not outwardly reviled. - 9th grade - outwardly reviled again. - 12th grade - actually dating, with a bit of interest here or there. - Freshman year of college - lower relative interest. - Senior year of college - enough girls are interested that they're fighting with each other. - 1st year in the workforce - outwardly reviled again! - 5-10 years into the workforce - hard say, got married, so I must have been doing something right. So, did I change much between 8th and 9th grade? Or between 12th grade and freshman year of college? No, obviously not, but my status relative to the bellcurve of available men did change quite a bit. This was most evident from my senior year to college to my first year in the workforce. I went from amazing, to worthless all due to graduation! Please bear in mind, I'm not complaining about the nature of female preferences here. However, I do wish someone had explained that this would occur, and also why it would occur. I remember being quite surprised at the time.

raducu 8y ago
Sorry to break it to you, but women chose you not because you're suddenly more attractive than your friend, but because they've had 15 years or so to learn that your friend won't settle down and their biological clock is ringing real hard in their 30s. It's quite cynical, I know.
- everdrive 8y ago
  I had the most interest from women when I was 21-22, in my senior year of college. How does your statement explain my result?
  - raducu 8y ago
    Because among college men, the more senior you are, the higher status; also the single women of your age either date you or they date some guy younger(naah, women don't do that) or they date some guy outside of college(a bit harder) -- plus single women feel that it's "now or never" since it's the final year in college. It USED to be be the same thing when you were in highschool before tinder and social media: as a male, the more senior the higher status you had -- i.e. 9th grader males will just drool at their female coleagues going out with more senior males, until in 12th grade you finally hit payday. Not so anymore because tinder and social media allow females to reach a much broader male audience. It's the same thing with women in their thirties -- they notice they get a lot less male attention -- first the bad boys stop noticing them and a couple of years later even the nicest of guys won't give them that sweet validating attention women crave, so the smart ones settle down with a nice guy in her early thirties, the not so smart ones end up basically cat ladies.