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> However, many men are still wedded, as it were, to the old model whereby their social status is accounted for by the number of women they have had sex with, a

> However, many men are still wedded, as it were, to the old model whereby their social status is accounted for by the number of women they have had sex with, and whether or not they are in a sexual relationship at the moment. It certainly is not an "old" model since most of society still ascribe to it. Men with many partners are still seen as more desirable due to network effects.

krapp 8y ago
"outdated" then, perhaps, because it depends on a power hierarchy between the sexes which is losing relevance in modern societies. Yes, the model is still prevalent, but I'm arguing that's exactly the problem. Basing status and self-worth on sexual conquest makes no more sense than basing it on the number of slaves in one's retinue or the size of the pile of gold in one's treasury. It's a ridiculous and archaic way of thinking. edit: I may have lost vouching privileges again, so to address blockmarker's dead comment below, unlike other animals, humans are sapient and capable of acting beyond the limits of mere instinct. The entire premise of human civilization, law and society is that abstractions beyond our animal nature are not only possible, but desirable. Yes, it may be part of our biology for males to want to seek out multiple mates, but it should also be part of our biology, then, for males to murder the children of other males in order to maximize the spread of their own progeny and genetic lineage. And we should be marking our territory with our urine and solving all disputes with ritual violence rather than a system of laws. We don't have to act like gorillas, we can be people if we choose.
- blockmarker 8y ago
  Not your parent, but it doesn't matter how reasonable this way of thinking is, if it stems from our biology.
- akdor1154 8y ago
  > Basing status and self-worth on sexual conquest makes no more sense than basing it on the number of slaves in one's retinue or the size of the pile of gold in one's treasury. It's a ridiculous and archaic way of thinking. Absolutely. However basing your self worth on acceptance/rejection of people you are attracted to or admire is perfectly normal. Note I'm not saying it's perfectly rational, or even healthy - but I do think it's normal, for people of any gender. I guess we probably disagree on what the majority of men are after - a hookup or a relationship? And if men who are looking for a hookup instead looked for a relationship, would they have more success? I think that even if all men were looking for a faithful, committed, relationship, then we would still see to some extent the unequal sex rates cited in the article. I don't know the solution to this however, just like I don't know the solution to the many other inequalities that are unfair towards women instead - the gradual liberation and increase in power of women is a great thing, and for anyone to suggest moving back to increasing male dominance is abhorrent.
- raducu 8y ago
  Oh please, it is precisely the other way around: status gets you more sexual partners not the other way around. If I managed to convince 10 hot chicks to have sex with a virgin nerdy guy(say by paying them), he won't be able to get the 11th by himself. On the otherhand if a virgin rockstar decided to lose his virginity, there will be dozens of women lined up to have sex with him.

krapp 8y ago

"outdated" then, perhaps, because it depends on a power hierarchy between the sexes which is losing relevance in modern societies. Yes, the model is still prevalent, but I'm arguing that's exactly the problem. Basing status and self-worth on sexual conquest makes no more sense than basing it on the number of slaves in one's retinue or the size of the pile of gold in one's treasury. It's a ridiculous and archaic way of thinking. edit: I may have lost vouching privileges again, so to address blockmarker's dead comment below, unlike other animals, humans are sapient and capable of acting beyond the limits of mere instinct. The entire premise of human civilization, law and society is that abstractions beyond our animal nature are not only possible, but desirable. Yes, it may be part of our biology for males to want to seek out multiple mates, but it should also be part of our biology, then, for males to murder the children of other males in order to maximize the spread of their own progeny and genetic lineage. And we should be marking our territory with our urine and solving all disputes with ritual violence rather than a system of laws. We don't have to act like gorillas, we can be people if we choose.

blockmarker 8y ago
Not your parent, but it doesn't matter how reasonable this way of thinking is, if it stems from our biology.
akdor1154 8y ago
> Basing status and self-worth on sexual conquest makes no more sense than basing it on the number of slaves in one's retinue or the size of the pile of gold in one's treasury. It's a ridiculous and archaic way of thinking. Absolutely. However basing your self worth on acceptance/rejection of people you are attracted to or admire is perfectly normal. Note I'm not saying it's perfectly rational, or even healthy - but I do think it's normal, for people of any gender. I guess we probably disagree on what the majority of men are after - a hookup or a relationship? And if men who are looking for a hookup instead looked for a relationship, would they have more success? I think that even if all men were looking for a faithful, committed, relationship, then we would still see to some extent the unequal sex rates cited in the article. I don't know the solution to this however, just like I don't know the solution to the many other inequalities that are unfair towards women instead - the gradual liberation and increase in power of women is a great thing, and for anyone to suggest moving back to increasing male dominance is abhorrent.
raducu 8y ago
Oh please, it is precisely the other way around: status gets you more sexual partners not the other way around. If I managed to convince 10 hot chicks to have sex with a virgin nerdy guy(say by paying them), he won't be able to get the 11th by himself. On the otherhand if a virgin rockstar decided to lose his virginity, there will be dozens of women lined up to have sex with him.