3 ms·

I'm still highly suspicious of the narrative all of this is premised on. TFA mentions the low sample size of the original study, and augments it with Twitter p

I'm still highly suspicious of the narrative all of this is premised on. TFA mentions the low sample size of the original study, and augments it with Twitter polls. But TFA author's Twitter follows aren't exactly a representative sample of the population... Furthermore, monogamy and sexual activity remains strong for people in their 30s, and I expect this will continue to be true in the future. Women are having children later, but there's still a strong preference for monogamy among people who choose to have children. This article does a good job at summarizing the problems with the narrativein OP's post: https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-not-for-the-reasons-incels-claim https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-no... > It remains to be seen what the end result will be this time around. More men will learn how to make themselves attractive people, so that women who aren't ready to have children yet are none-the-less invested in forming a strong and lasting relationship that includes a sexual component. Some men won't accept this and they will be celibate for a good chunk of their 20s. Oh well. What should not happen is a regression to the sexual and gender role "morals" of the past. Quantitatively, there are at least as many women as men in the world. Qualitatively, "celibacy during your 20s" is not even remotely similar to the level of harm experienced by the bottom third of women for most of human history. I also think that will not happen, and fears about social stability are enormously overblown. It's exceptionally unlikely that a small subgroup of men who already refuse to adapt is large enough and motivated enough to hold the rest of society at gunpoint.

samhain 7y ago
>It's exceptionally unlikely that a small subgroup of men who already refuse to adapt is large enough and motivated enough to hold the rest of society at gunpoint. Isn't it the point that it's something like 80% of men that are becoming disenfranchised? That hardly seems like a small subgroup to me.
- chris_mc 7y ago
  >something like 80% of men that are becoming disenfranchised Are you arguing men have a right to sex? Disenfranchisement is the taking away of rights, that's it's definition. If not, you should be more careful using that phrasing.
  - danlugo92 7y ago
    I wouldn't call it a right, but as others have pointed out, it's an issue that might bring heavy consequences in the future, so maybe let's do something about it, or maybe we can't do anything about it and let's just hope for the best.
- throwawayjava 7y ago
  No. It's just hetero 24-33 year olds, and only the subset of those that arent celibate for other reasons, and then only a minority (albeit growing) percentage of those. And then only a very small minority of those that blame others for their own issues. We're taking about factions of a percent of the population. This is what I mean by overblown. People's perception on this issue is just ridiculously out of whack. Young men aren't as dangerous to civil society as a lot of people like to imagine. The violent ones get jail and the rest grow up.
pimlottc 7y ago
> TFA mentions the low sample size of the original study, and augments it with Twitter polls. But TFA author's Twitter follows aren't exactly a representative sample of the population... I agree, and even if their followers were, all it takes is a single retweet by a popular user, or post in a high-traffic subreddit or Facebook share to wildly skew the results. Offering the Twitter poll as any sort of evidence at all without major disclaimers makes me quite skeptic of the author's qualifications, to be honest...

samhain 7y ago

>It's exceptionally unlikely that a small subgroup of men who already refuse to adapt is large enough and motivated enough to hold the rest of society at gunpoint. Isn't it the point that it's something like 80% of men that are becoming disenfranchised? That hardly seems like a small subgroup to me.

chris_mc 7y ago
>something like 80% of men that are becoming disenfranchised Are you arguing men have a right to sex? Disenfranchisement is the taking away of rights, that's it's definition. If not, you should be more careful using that phrasing.
- danlugo92 7y ago
  I wouldn't call it a right, but as others have pointed out, it's an issue that might bring heavy consequences in the future, so maybe let's do something about it, or maybe we can't do anything about it and let's just hope for the best.
throwawayjava 7y ago
No. It's just hetero 24-33 year olds, and only the subset of those that arent celibate for other reasons, and then only a minority (albeit growing) percentage of those. And then only a very small minority of those that blame others for their own issues. We're taking about factions of a percent of the population. This is what I mean by overblown. People's perception on this issue is just ridiculously out of whack. Young men aren't as dangerous to civil society as a lot of people like to imagine. The violent ones get jail and the rest grow up.

pimlottc 7y ago

> TFA mentions the low sample size of the original study, and augments it with Twitter polls. But TFA author's Twitter follows aren't exactly a representative sample of the population... I agree, and even if their followers were, all it takes is a single retweet by a popular user, or post in a high-traffic subreddit or Facebook share to wildly skew the results. Offering the Twitter poll as any sort of evidence at all without major disclaimers makes me quite skeptic of the author's qualifications, to be honest...