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> an unattractive person even if you look fine physically. There is so much emphasis on physical appearance and status in this thread. If this is a common min

> an unattractive person even if you look fine physically. There is so much emphasis on physical appearance and status in this thread. If this is a common mindset among young men, it's no wonder they are lonely. Who wants to spend time with someone who reduces deeply human relationships to status and sex appeal? Attractiveness is a complicated and extremely individual thing. Appearance and status are much less important than forming an intimate emotional connection through shared experiences and values.

arvinsim 7y ago
It's true that people would like to think that personality and emotional connection matter more than physical appearance. And I am glad that some of it is the case. Heck, I would like to believe that is the majority of cases. But you can't deny the fact that people do make snap judgements on each other based on physical appearance alone. It's not even about dating. It's probably something wired to our brain. Now if the above is true, why won't you care about your physical appearance? Why leave something that important on the table?
- throwawayjava 7y ago
  Snap judgements exist, but IMO most are non-committal. You'll notice people who are very attractive or very unattractive, but most people you simply won't immediately react to sexually (well, except when you're 15). Of all the women I've dated, only 1 said she noticed me (either way) before first developing a reasonably close friendship. For the big middle, personality has a huge effect on perception. See e.g. https://psychcentral.com/news/2007/11/30/personality-influences-perceived-attractiveness/1597.html https://psychcentral.com/news/2007/11/30/personality-influen... > why won't you care about your physical appearance? Why leave something that important on the table? Well, certainly don't be a slob. And not just because of dating! Dressing poorly and appearing unkept effects other parts of life too (e.g. career). Also, exercise is important for all sorts of reasons aside from attractiveness. But other than being generally healthy and well-kept, I don't focus on my appearance because grooming is boring. Why spend your time grooming beyond a level of general acceptability when you could learn to play an instrument, learn a new language, read a book, or go for a hike? If all you focus on is appearances, don't be surprised when the only people who find you even remotely interesting are other people who focus a lot on appearances.
  - arvinsim 7y ago
    > But other than being generally healthy and well-kept, I don't focus on my appearance because grooming is boring. Why spend your time grooming beyond a level of general acceptability when you could learn to play an instrument, learn a new language, read a book, or go for a hike? You're right. But I never said that we should focus on appearance to the exclusivity of everything else. In that we agree. But there are people laboring under the idea that you can neglect it by making up for it in other areas. That's what I am trying to refute.
skocznymroczny 7y ago
That's easy to say, but physical appearance is the gateway to personality based relationships. You can have the greatest personality in the world, but be unlucky in the dating world because you don't fit the physical expectations. The choice given by dating websites amplifies that too. Why would a woman settle for a friendly 165 cm guy with a good job, if a 185 cm "lumberjack" is only few swipes away (in theory, because there are many more women competing for him)?
- throwawayjava 7y ago
  > That's easy to say, but physical appearance is the gateway to personality based relationships. This is really only true at the margins. > Why would a woman settle for a friendly 165 cm guy with a good job, if a 185 cm "lumberjack" is only few swipes away (in theory, because there are many more women competing for him)? For the same reason most people choose friends based on who they get along with instead of who has the most money/status. After all, why spend time on a friendship that only gets you a beer now and then when you could spend your time befriending people with yachts and ski lodges? People crave closeness and belonging. Being close with someone who you actually enjoy spending time with feels better than having sex with someone you don't care about. Note: few people enjoy the company of another person merely because that other person "has a good job" or is merely "friendly". How many of your male friends do you enjoy spending time with because they make good money and aren't assholes? Probably very few. For the rest, you have something in common that drives the friendship. The same thing is true in romantic relationships.

arvinsim 7y ago

It's true that people would like to think that personality and emotional connection matter more than physical appearance. And I am glad that some of it is the case. Heck, I would like to believe that is the majority of cases. But you can't deny the fact that people do make snap judgements on each other based on physical appearance alone. It's not even about dating. It's probably something wired to our brain. Now if the above is true, why won't you care about your physical appearance? Why leave something that important on the table?

throwawayjava 7y ago
Snap judgements exist, but IMO most are non-committal. You'll notice people who are very attractive or very unattractive, but most people you simply won't immediately react to sexually (well, except when you're 15). Of all the women I've dated, only 1 said she noticed me (either way) before first developing a reasonably close friendship. For the big middle, personality has a huge effect on perception. See e.g. https://psychcentral.com/news/2007/11/30/personality-influences-perceived-attractiveness/1597.html https://psychcentral.com/news/2007/11/30/personality-influen... > why won't you care about your physical appearance? Why leave something that important on the table? Well, certainly don't be a slob. And not just because of dating! Dressing poorly and appearing unkept effects other parts of life too (e.g. career). Also, exercise is important for all sorts of reasons aside from attractiveness. But other than being generally healthy and well-kept, I don't focus on my appearance because grooming is boring. Why spend your time grooming beyond a level of general acceptability when you could learn to play an instrument, learn a new language, read a book, or go for a hike? If all you focus on is appearances, don't be surprised when the only people who find you even remotely interesting are other people who focus a lot on appearances.
- arvinsim 7y ago
  > But other than being generally healthy and well-kept, I don't focus on my appearance because grooming is boring. Why spend your time grooming beyond a level of general acceptability when you could learn to play an instrument, learn a new language, read a book, or go for a hike? You're right. But I never said that we should focus on appearance to the exclusivity of everything else. In that we agree. But there are people laboring under the idea that you can neglect it by making up for it in other areas. That's what I am trying to refute.

skocznymroczny 7y ago

That's easy to say, but physical appearance is the gateway to personality based relationships. You can have the greatest personality in the world, but be unlucky in the dating world because you don't fit the physical expectations. The choice given by dating websites amplifies that too. Why would a woman settle for a friendly 165 cm guy with a good job, if a 185 cm "lumberjack" is only few swipes away (in theory, because there are many more women competing for him)?

throwawayjava 7y ago
> That's easy to say, but physical appearance is the gateway to personality based relationships. This is really only true at the margins. > Why would a woman settle for a friendly 165 cm guy with a good job, if a 185 cm "lumberjack" is only few swipes away (in theory, because there are many more women competing for him)? For the same reason most people choose friends based on who they get along with instead of who has the most money/status. After all, why spend time on a friendship that only gets you a beer now and then when you could spend your time befriending people with yachts and ski lodges? People crave closeness and belonging. Being close with someone who you actually enjoy spending time with feels better than having sex with someone you don't care about. Note: few people enjoy the company of another person merely because that other person "has a good job" or is merely "friendly". How many of your male friends do you enjoy spending time with because they make good money and aren't assholes? Probably very few. For the rest, you have something in common that drives the friendship. The same thing is true in romantic relationships.