7 ms·

Portland wants to transform its software culture into an industry

49 points by turoczy 16y ago

intellectronica 16y ago
What they call "dogfooding" has a different name when it comes to the relationship between government and business - subsidy. If shielding local industry from competition is the mayor's idea of creating a new market, Portland's efforts should probably start with getting a better mayor.
- tapp 16y ago
  The mayor was elected by the citizens of Portland and is paid with their tax dollars. One of his primary mandates is to improve the local economy. Why should Portland not use those tax dollars to cultivate its local economy if that is the goal? I am the CEO of a mid-sized, private company. I need our website updated. Should I be required to put out an RFP to source the work to the lowest bidder? By your logic, if I don't, aren't I "shielding" my internal staff from competition?
  - jacques_chester 16y ago
    > Why should Portland not use those tax dollars to cultivate its local economy if that is the goal? The goal is a noble thing, but good intentions are not enough. "Sheltered workshop" policies lead either to feeble industries or rent-seeking or both.
    - tapp 16y ago
      According to the article, the purpose of the 'dogfooding' is not providing a long term subsidy, but rather "to serve as a proving ground for the technology and a reference customer." YC provides its portfolio companies with a direct financial subsidy at a time when they are not yet able to stand on their own, and gets other YC connected companies to use their products and serve as reference customers. Is YC "enfeebling" its startups?
      - jacques_chester 16y ago
        YC (or any other commercial funding source) does not have a political incentive to keep funding failed or failing companies.
  - CamperBob 16y ago
    private There's the rub.
    - tapp 16y ago
      How so?
      - CamperBob 16y ago
        What your company does with its own capital is your company's business. What the mayor does with the city's taxes is everyone's business. Picking winners and losers on any grounds other than competitiveness isn't in the taxpayers' interest... or if it is, it needs to be very clearly justified.
        tapp 16y ago
        What a company does with its capital is its investors and stakeholders business, and the CEO is accountable to them for same. What a city does with its capital is its citizens business (not "everyone's") and the mayor is accountable to them for same. You're assuming that the citizens of Portland want local government to exclude source/location from consideration as a factor when purchasing software services, but do you have any data to support that? (Or else you're simply assuming you know what is in their best interest better than they do which seems overly paternalistic.) From the limited amount I know about Portland, I would strongly expect the opposite to be true.
        anamax 16y ago
        > What a city does with its capital is its citizens business (not "everyone's") and the mayor is accountable to them for same. Has Portland managed to avoid the "city money goes to insiders" problem? If not, why won't this be more of the same?
cullenking 16y ago
The problem with Portland is talent seems to be hidden. I haven't explored too much in the time I have been here, but the bits of exposure I have had didn't seem too promising. Contrast that to a larger area like Seattle, or a very talent-dense area like Silicon Valley, and you have the opposite problem of sorting through talent. Additionally, there are very few resources for people just starting out. There is the Oregon Entrepreneurship Network, but with their fee structure it seems to be more of a business than a resource for a small business. You have to pay annual membership dues, and from there you have to pay entry into their events. Want to go to their monthly pub talk? Yeah, that'll be $30 for non members, and $15 for people already registered with the OEN. Of course talk is cheap, why not put together something myself? From the few events I have been to, the SNR was poor enough to be intimidating. 2/3 social media consultants, 1/4 looking for a free lunch and the rest as lost as me.
- mtrichardson 16y ago
  There are local tech events happening pretty much every night of the week. http://calagator.org/ http://calagator.org/ has a good listing. It's to the point where you can't pick a night to do a user group/meetup without it conflicting. You might want to start there when trying to find talent... though for what it's worth we haven't had a hard time finding talent lately. Lot of competing people away, but that's hardly new or different.
  - cullenking 16y ago
    I know of the list and have been to a few meetings. When I mentioned I didn't see much going on, I meant there didn't seem to be a cohesive group of entrepreneurs. There are plenty of user groups and other nerdy meetings, but I haven't had luck connecting with other people attempting to get a business off the ground. Yes, PDX has nerds and programmers and people interested in tech, but, it doesn't have many software entrepreneurs to connect with.
    - sedachv 16y ago
      That's also the impression I got when I spent a couple of months in Portland last year. Somewhat unrelated, there's a lot of interesting programming language companies around (Galois, Gemstone, and some others I can't remember now). I don't have hard data, but have the impression that that's a lot more than average for other US cities with high-tech sectors.
dailo10 16y ago
Here's hoping they succeed. Portland would make a great tech center. It certainly has that counter culture attitude. And it's highly livable. Now they just need the jobs and talent - that's the hard part.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  Portland is easily my favorite US city. Great downtown, good vibe, fantastic outdoors, and the best bookstore in the world.
- olefoo 16y ago
  There's a reason that some of the best open-source conferences happen in Portland, and it's not just because Linus Torvalds lives nearby. Portland is a remarkably livable city with a fairly deep talent pool.
  - randall 16y ago
    And, they have their own TechCrunch: I believe most writers for ReadWriteWeb are Portland-ers.
garrettgillas 16y ago
Yeah, this article really doesn't mention too many hard and fast promises but I am optimistic about the Portland seed fund. I got to talk to the two fund managers in charge and they seem to have the right idea about how to bet their chips. We'll see in another month or two if I'm right.
- garrettgillas 16y ago
  By the way, I didn't know that Josh Friedman wanted to be in charge of the Portland Seed Fund. I thought I heard that the whole thing was originally his idea but I could be wrong. Either way, the fund would best be managed by a hands-on Paul Graham type and Josh is probably as good of a fit as we can get out here.
  - pdxlover 16y ago
    It was and you are right he should have been, but it was basically pulled away.
erik_landerholm 16y ago
As someone that tried very hard to raise even a little money in Portland before getting into Ycombinator and ultimately raising 6 million this idea is DOOMED. We did the Portland Angel Fund (or whatever it's called) American Idol off for start-ups...total joke. The whole industry is dominated by 'service providers' that look to charge start-ups for everything while writing no checks. They actually asked us to come back and speak at one of their conventions and wanted to charge us almost $400. There is no follow on capital. There is no entrepreneur culture. I love Portland and Oregon (grew up there, went to OSU), but this is a waste of time and money.
- cullenking 16y ago
  Is that the event put on by the Oregon Entrepreneurship Network? I have been very skeptical about all their events (really, to do anything I need to shell out HOW much? To go to a pub and drink a beer even?). I wouldn't say the idea is doomed. Even if it isn't successful, at least it's something in the right direction.
  - garrettgillas 16y ago
    The OEN is one thing but the Portland tech scene shouldn't be characterized by such an organization with what might be called "outdated" policies. My feelings are that Portland has talent and what it needs is seed funding and mentoring. Something like an incubator... I believe that this imbalance is the "problem" with Portland.
  - erik_landerholm 16y ago
    You are right to be skeptical. The reason why i say it is doomed is (i'm not sure it's this plan so i could be jumping the gun) because one of the plans that is being implemented we were interviewed by one of 'LPs' and the info about how the 'funding' works was very sketchy. It pretty much boiled down to pick 4-6 companies and give them loans that can be called back at roughly anytime and are personally guaranteed. When we (my partner and I) looking for money in portland and working on our start-up at the same time even giving BrainTree a few thousand bucks as guarantee was out of the question. The idea that any young, early start-up wants loans with personal guarantees makes no sense. If anything just get 5-6 credit cards and max them out to finance it. It's easier.
mtrichardson 16y ago
Portland venture capital is picking up (and we've been lucky to be a part of that). An important note is that most of the money isn't coming from Portland and it's not coming in small amounts. Serious investments are coming in from out of state VC firms. Dedicated entrepreneurs exist and are making a go at it here - and doing quite well. I'm wary of most of these organizations, but I do have high hopes for the software startup scene here.
baguasquirrel 16y ago
Make non-compete agreements unenforceable there and I would consider moving there. Now if you really want a leg up on California, also consider make non-poaching agreements unenforceable.
- bediger 16y ago
  Oregon should also do the "work done after hours is your own" thing that allows Californians to do "startups in their garages". Literally.

49 points by turoczy 16y ago

What they call "dogfooding" has a different name when it comes to the relationship between government and business - subsidy. If shielding local industry from competition is the mayor's idea of creating a new market, Portland's efforts should probably start with getting a better mayor.

tapp 16y ago
The mayor was elected by the citizens of Portland and is paid with their tax dollars. One of his primary mandates is to improve the local economy. Why should Portland not use those tax dollars to cultivate its local economy if that is the goal? I am the CEO of a mid-sized, private company. I need our website updated. Should I be required to put out an RFP to source the work to the lowest bidder? By your logic, if I don't, aren't I "shielding" my internal staff from competition?
- jacques_chester 16y ago
  > Why should Portland not use those tax dollars to cultivate its local economy if that is the goal? The goal is a noble thing, but good intentions are not enough. "Sheltered workshop" policies lead either to feeble industries or rent-seeking or both.
  - tapp 16y ago
    According to the article, the purpose of the 'dogfooding' is not providing a long term subsidy, but rather "to serve as a proving ground for the technology and a reference customer." YC provides its portfolio companies with a direct financial subsidy at a time when they are not yet able to stand on their own, and gets other YC connected companies to use their products and serve as reference customers. Is YC "enfeebling" its startups?
    - jacques_chester 16y ago
      YC (or any other commercial funding source) does not have a political incentive to keep funding failed or failing companies.
- CamperBob 16y ago
  private There's the rub.
  - tapp 16y ago
    How so?
    - CamperBob 16y ago
      What your company does with its own capital is your company's business. What the mayor does with the city's taxes is everyone's business. Picking winners and losers on any grounds other than competitiveness isn't in the taxpayers' interest... or if it is, it needs to be very clearly justified.
      - tapp 16y ago
        What a company does with its capital is its investors and stakeholders business, and the CEO is accountable to them for same. What a city does with its capital is its citizens business (not "everyone's") and the mayor is accountable to them for same. You're assuming that the citizens of Portland want local government to exclude source/location from consideration as a factor when purchasing software services, but do you have any data to support that? (Or else you're simply assuming you know what is in their best interest better than they do which seems overly paternalistic.) From the limited amount I know about Portland, I would strongly expect the opposite to be true.
        anamax 16y ago
        > What a city does with its capital is its citizens business (not "everyone's") and the mayor is accountable to them for same. Has Portland managed to avoid the "city money goes to insiders" problem? If not, why won't this be more of the same?

cullenking 16y ago

The problem with Portland is talent seems to be hidden. I haven't explored too much in the time I have been here, but the bits of exposure I have had didn't seem too promising. Contrast that to a larger area like Seattle, or a very talent-dense area like Silicon Valley, and you have the opposite problem of sorting through talent. Additionally, there are very few resources for people just starting out. There is the Oregon Entrepreneurship Network, but with their fee structure it seems to be more of a business than a resource for a small business. You have to pay annual membership dues, and from there you have to pay entry into their events. Want to go to their monthly pub talk? Yeah, that'll be $30 for non members, and $15 for people already registered with the OEN. Of course talk is cheap, why not put together something myself? From the few events I have been to, the SNR was poor enough to be intimidating. 2/3 social media consultants, 1/4 looking for a free lunch and the rest as lost as me.

mtrichardson 16y ago
There are local tech events happening pretty much every night of the week. http://calagator.org/ http://calagator.org/ has a good listing. It's to the point where you can't pick a night to do a user group/meetup without it conflicting. You might want to start there when trying to find talent... though for what it's worth we haven't had a hard time finding talent lately. Lot of competing people away, but that's hardly new or different.
- cullenking 16y ago
  I know of the list and have been to a few meetings. When I mentioned I didn't see much going on, I meant there didn't seem to be a cohesive group of entrepreneurs. There are plenty of user groups and other nerdy meetings, but I haven't had luck connecting with other people attempting to get a business off the ground. Yes, PDX has nerds and programmers and people interested in tech, but, it doesn't have many software entrepreneurs to connect with.
  - sedachv 16y ago
    That's also the impression I got when I spent a couple of months in Portland last year. Somewhat unrelated, there's a lot of interesting programming language companies around (Galois, Gemstone, and some others I can't remember now). I don't have hard data, but have the impression that that's a lot more than average for other US cities with high-tech sectors.

dailo10 16y ago

Here's hoping they succeed. Portland would make a great tech center. It certainly has that counter culture attitude. And it's highly livable. Now they just need the jobs and talent - that's the hard part.

waterlesscloud 16y ago
Portland is easily my favorite US city. Great downtown, good vibe, fantastic outdoors, and the best bookstore in the world.
olefoo 16y ago
There's a reason that some of the best open-source conferences happen in Portland, and it's not just because Linus Torvalds lives nearby. Portland is a remarkably livable city with a fairly deep talent pool.
- randall 16y ago
  And, they have their own TechCrunch: I believe most writers for ReadWriteWeb are Portland-ers.

garrettgillas 16y ago

Yeah, this article really doesn't mention too many hard and fast promises but I am optimistic about the Portland seed fund. I got to talk to the two fund managers in charge and they seem to have the right idea about how to bet their chips. We'll see in another month or two if I'm right.

garrettgillas 16y ago
By the way, I didn't know that Josh Friedman wanted to be in charge of the Portland Seed Fund. I thought I heard that the whole thing was originally his idea but I could be wrong. Either way, the fund would best be managed by a hands-on Paul Graham type and Josh is probably as good of a fit as we can get out here.
- pdxlover 16y ago
  It was and you are right he should have been, but it was basically pulled away.

erik_landerholm 16y ago

As someone that tried very hard to raise even a little money in Portland before getting into Ycombinator and ultimately raising 6 million this idea is DOOMED. We did the Portland Angel Fund (or whatever it's called) American Idol off for start-ups...total joke. The whole industry is dominated by 'service providers' that look to charge start-ups for everything while writing no checks. They actually asked us to come back and speak at one of their conventions and wanted to charge us almost $400. There is no follow on capital. There is no entrepreneur culture. I love Portland and Oregon (grew up there, went to OSU), but this is a waste of time and money.

cullenking 16y ago
Is that the event put on by the Oregon Entrepreneurship Network? I have been very skeptical about all their events (really, to do anything I need to shell out HOW much? To go to a pub and drink a beer even?). I wouldn't say the idea is doomed. Even if it isn't successful, at least it's something in the right direction.
- garrettgillas 16y ago
  The OEN is one thing but the Portland tech scene shouldn't be characterized by such an organization with what might be called "outdated" policies. My feelings are that Portland has talent and what it needs is seed funding and mentoring. Something like an incubator... I believe that this imbalance is the "problem" with Portland.
- erik_landerholm 16y ago
  You are right to be skeptical. The reason why i say it is doomed is (i'm not sure it's this plan so i could be jumping the gun) because one of the plans that is being implemented we were interviewed by one of 'LPs' and the info about how the 'funding' works was very sketchy. It pretty much boiled down to pick 4-6 companies and give them loans that can be called back at roughly anytime and are personally guaranteed. When we (my partner and I) looking for money in portland and working on our start-up at the same time even giving BrainTree a few thousand bucks as guarantee was out of the question. The idea that any young, early start-up wants loans with personal guarantees makes no sense. If anything just get 5-6 credit cards and max them out to finance it. It's easier.

mtrichardson 16y ago

Portland venture capital is picking up (and we've been lucky to be a part of that). An important note is that most of the money isn't coming from Portland and it's not coming in small amounts. Serious investments are coming in from out of state VC firms. Dedicated entrepreneurs exist and are making a go at it here - and doing quite well. I'm wary of most of these organizations, but I do have high hopes for the software startup scene here.

baguasquirrel 16y ago

Make non-compete agreements unenforceable there and I would consider moving there. Now if you really want a leg up on California, also consider make non-poaching agreements unenforceable.

bediger 16y ago
Oregon should also do the "work done after hours is your own" thing that allows Californians to do "startups in their garages". Literally.