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“The state-run news media teems with glowing reviews of the app, including stories about diligent hospital workers and kindergarten teachers who open Study the

“The state-run news media teems with glowing reviews of the app, including stories about diligent hospital workers and kindergarten teachers who open Study the Great Nation as soon as they awaken, even before they drink water or go to the bathroom.” How many Americans check Facebook or Twitter before they get out of bed on the morning? It’s interesting to see how things are framed when they come out of China. Maybe this app is as bad as it seems, but things like the above quote make me wonder.

jorblumesea 8y ago
How many Americans are forced by the government to check Twitter or Facebook? Is Twitter or Facebook 100% pro government information? The article made it clear that this is a form of forced brainwashing. It's really not even close to equivalent.
- mikeash 8y ago
  The whole thing certainly is not equivalent, but I’m picking out this particular paragraph because it describes something that many of us do as if it were nefarious. How many of the other things described are like that? How much of this article is reporting the facts, and how much is it painting a picture?
  - jorblumesea 8y ago
    > How many of the other things described are like that? How many western news media devices track your participation and score it to report to the government? Do you feel pressure to open up Twitter and say good things about the govt? Not really sure what your point is, there's no western equivalent for this app and making any kind of comparison to any social media network is silly. It sounds like this app itself is nefarious in its intent and scope, and should be described in such terms.
    - the_fonz 8y ago
      If the sentiment you express in Western social media is political and outside of the manufactured consent, you are very likely to be put on one of the many American watchlists with millions of other people and systematically-harassed at US borders. This sucks but is the way Western, corporate, imperialist, inverted totalitarianism works.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      My point is that this article is slanted and it makes me skeptical.
arduanika 8y ago
FDR's America had radio and early television, just like Germany. It's basically the same thing, morally; doesn't matter how the technology was used. Why do dictatorships get so unfairly "framed"? Don't want to presume or attack anything about you personally, but your argument is despicable.
- mikeash 8y ago
  My point is that this paragraph uses stilted language to make a completely mundane event sound sinister, and this makes me skeptical of how the app is portrayed in general. What’s despicable about that? Should I ignore manipulative writing as long as the targets deserve it?
  - arduanika 8y ago
    Ah, ok, I think I see what you meant. At least as far as I've seen, this is roughly the same general alarmist, sensational tone that you'll see in NYT's articles about the (very real) dangers of tech in the West. > Should I ignore manipulative writing Hard to, these days. Most news is manipulative, most news is slanted. We're all kind of stuck trying to extract facts from the morass of spin, and form our worldviews based on that. And of course it's fine to point out manipulation as you see it -- I apologize for calling that despicable. But: reread that sentence you quoted. It's not talking about the "mundane event" of checking an app in the morning. It's telling you about the noteworthy trend of a state-run media in a fascist country celebrating such mundane habits. The NYT is calling out "stilted language" and "manipulative writing" as it were, albeit indirectly and without direct citation or translation, so it's the NYT's word against the People's Daily's. Whom do you trust more? (I'm as disappointed as the next guy in the NYT these past few years, but I really hope your answer to this question isn't a false equivalency).
    - mikeash 8y ago
      How are they calling out the manipulative writing? Why does it matter who I trust more? I trust the NYT much more than the People’s Daily, but how is that relevant to my point here?

jorblumesea 8y ago

How many Americans are forced by the government to check Twitter or Facebook? Is Twitter or Facebook 100% pro government information? The article made it clear that this is a form of forced brainwashing. It's really not even close to equivalent.

mikeash 8y ago
The whole thing certainly is not equivalent, but I’m picking out this particular paragraph because it describes something that many of us do as if it were nefarious. How many of the other things described are like that? How much of this article is reporting the facts, and how much is it painting a picture?
- jorblumesea 8y ago
  > How many of the other things described are like that? How many western news media devices track your participation and score it to report to the government? Do you feel pressure to open up Twitter and say good things about the govt? Not really sure what your point is, there's no western equivalent for this app and making any kind of comparison to any social media network is silly. It sounds like this app itself is nefarious in its intent and scope, and should be described in such terms.
  - the_fonz 8y ago
    If the sentiment you express in Western social media is political and outside of the manufactured consent, you are very likely to be put on one of the many American watchlists with millions of other people and systematically-harassed at US borders. This sucks but is the way Western, corporate, imperialist, inverted totalitarianism works.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    My point is that this article is slanted and it makes me skeptical.

arduanika 8y ago

FDR's America had radio and early television, just like Germany. It's basically the same thing, morally; doesn't matter how the technology was used. Why do dictatorships get so unfairly "framed"? Don't want to presume or attack anything about you personally, but your argument is despicable.

mikeash 8y ago
My point is that this paragraph uses stilted language to make a completely mundane event sound sinister, and this makes me skeptical of how the app is portrayed in general. What’s despicable about that? Should I ignore manipulative writing as long as the targets deserve it?
- arduanika 8y ago
  Ah, ok, I think I see what you meant. At least as far as I've seen, this is roughly the same general alarmist, sensational tone that you'll see in NYT's articles about the (very real) dangers of tech in the West. > Should I ignore manipulative writing Hard to, these days. Most news is manipulative, most news is slanted. We're all kind of stuck trying to extract facts from the morass of spin, and form our worldviews based on that. And of course it's fine to point out manipulation as you see it -- I apologize for calling that despicable. But: reread that sentence you quoted. It's not talking about the "mundane event" of checking an app in the morning. It's telling you about the noteworthy trend of a state-run media in a fascist country celebrating such mundane habits. The NYT is calling out "stilted language" and "manipulative writing" as it were, albeit indirectly and without direct citation or translation, so it's the NYT's word against the People's Daily's. Whom do you trust more? (I'm as disappointed as the next guy in the NYT these past few years, but I really hope your answer to this question isn't a false equivalency).
  - mikeash 8y ago
    How are they calling out the manipulative writing? Why does it matter who I trust more? I trust the NYT much more than the People’s Daily, but how is that relevant to my point here?