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Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because

Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.

pdonis 8y ago
> we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.
- diminoten 8y ago
  So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derailing it with semantic arguments about things they did understand, but didn't like how it was presented.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustified.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      It's not unjustified, and even if it was, a belief can still be true or false. Again, I urge you to read about epistemological knowledge. Basic philosophy concept that will educate you.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion Yes, exactly, which is why I keep objecting when you express your opinion but then treat it as if it were fact.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      I don't care if you object, I'm not going to stop.
chmod775 8y ago
> You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. Yikes. Okay. You goaded me into replying. About lies and opinions: If you said something factually incorrect that you nevertheless believed to be true at the time, you were not lying. That is why it can't be a lie when you say something that you honestly believe (i.e. your opinion). Now it might be that "Lie" means something different in your culture, but in the English language it means "[..] an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie). Here's a good article on the matter: https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying Now whether I lied when I said I would not reply is for you to figure out.

pdonis 8y ago

> we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.

diminoten 8y ago
So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? Jesus dude, why the fuck would anyone listen to that level of hubris? What the hell kind of incentives are you giving me here, because right now my only incentive is to laugh at the person who can't actually have a conversation because they're too busy derailing it with semantic arguments about things they did understand, but didn't like how it was presented.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > So to be clear, you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion, but due to semantics of English, you demand I express it in a way that doesn't offend you? It has nothing to do with offending anyone. (Note that I explicitly said that rudeness was not the issue). It has nothing to do with how you presented what you said. It has to do with the substance of what you said--your accusation of lying--being unjustified.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    It's not unjustified, and even if it was, a belief can still be true or false. Again, I urge you to read about epistemological knowledge. Basic philosophy concept that will educate you.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > you can obviously see when I'm expressing my opinion Yes, exactly, which is why I keep objecting when you express your opinion but then treat it as if it were fact.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    I don't care if you object, I'm not going to stop.

chmod775 8y ago

> You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. Yikes. Okay. You goaded me into replying. About lies and opinions: If you said something factually incorrect that you nevertheless believed to be true at the time, you were not lying. That is why it can't be a lie when you say something that you honestly believe (i.e. your opinion). Now it might be that "Lie" means something different in your culture, but in the English language it means "[..] an assertion that is believed to be false, typically used with the purpose of deceiving someone". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie). Here's a good article on the matter: https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying https://philosophynow.org/issues/27/The_Truth_about_Lying Now whether I lied when I said I would not reply is for you to figure out.