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> forcing workers who fall behind to write reports criticizing themselves The struggle session returns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://

> forcing workers who fall behind to write reports criticizing themselves The struggle session returns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session Scary indeed. Imagine a China as tightly controlled as NK but far far more powerful.

Razengan 8y ago
Could we hinder them by not making the tools that enable them to do that?
- crowbahr 8y ago
  What control does the west have over their tools? They write the software themselves. They make the devices themselves. The West has 0 leverage.
  - Razengan 8y ago
    Well, in TFA, the app in question is distributed via Apple’s & Google's app stores.
    - est31 8y ago
      If Apple took that app down, they'd disappear in the blink of an eye. Doesn't make it right to keep it up but they have no power whatsoever. It's the basic dilemma in any authoritarian society: do you want to protect your values or yourself. Choose one, and often you get neither. Being able to protect both is a luxury.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      If they made the ad again today, the hammers would be thrown in the other direction.
    - jdietrich 8y ago
      The Google Play Store is not available in China; Android apps are distributed in China through a variety of Chinese-based app stores. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billion...
      - Razengan 8y ago
        Ah sorry, I assumed Android == Google Play Store.
    - leavjenn 8y ago
      And you can't rate & review this app on Apple App Store.[0] I think only some apps made by Apple have this privilege. [0]https://imgur.com/a/60gdRZs https://imgur.com/a/60gdRZs
      - Razengan 8y ago
        That's interesting...and disturbing. Why? Someone should press Tim Cook about this.
        candiodari 8y ago
        No they shouldn't. If anything this protects people. Just imagine people getting "caught" rating this. If it wasn't impossible, people might accidentally rate it badly. This would do nothing to stop this, but might really be a problem for them.
  - arduanika 8y ago
    > 0 leverage How about trade policies that take into account human rights? Unless you include western politicians and newspapers among "their tools". In that case, you're right, we have no hope of exercising leverage.
- ZhuanXia 8y ago
  China has the highest quality human capital in the world and a huge population. There is nothing we can do that they cannot. It is a shame how things are turning in China. There was always the potential for greater authoritarianism and it seems to be arriving.
  - umvi 8y ago
    > There is nothing we can do that they cannot. Well, we can think freely and innovate, a problem China seems to struggle with. You can't command people to be inventive. You can, however, command people to copy other people's ideas.
    - nine_k 8y ago
      Soviet Union was highly authoritarian, but was able to keep innovations coming where it mattered, that is, around military technology. The word to google is "sharashka". OTOH Soviet Union sucked at innovation everywhere else, which was costly. Inability to feed the population when still keeping up in the arms race is what killed Soviet Union. China is seemingly quite far from such a situation, though.
      - est31 8y ago
        North korea is still a bit like that. Everything is underfunded to the degree that you are aloted a strip of a public road that you have to keep clean with brooms including in winter (something usually done by the state), except for their nuclear research department.
    - est31 8y ago
      China has had a bad century (they call it "century of humiliation" [1]) but before that it was the biggest economy in the world. Don't underestimate them. Yes, in many industries they are still heavily stealing IP but the notion that China is just copying the west is outdated. An increasing amount of intellectuals stays in China instead of emigrating to the west. They already are world leaders in key areas like computer hardware (shenzen), and are working very hard at becoming world leaders in other areas. There are two futures ahead of us: either the regime falling and China ruling over the world like the US did in the 20th and early 21st century, or the regime remaining in power and China's head of state ascending to global dictator. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
- etse 8y ago
  No, but falsifying successful app activity is apparently how some resist the Chinese government.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  A much more effective strategy would be providing tools to empower those with the desire to resist or circumvent the system.
- the_fonz 8y ago
  There's no technical panacea to this undesirable behavior. Sanctions against party elites would be a start by preventing them from banking or traveling freely.

Razengan 8y ago

Could we hinder them by not making the tools that enable them to do that?

crowbahr 8y ago
What control does the west have over their tools? They write the software themselves. They make the devices themselves. The West has 0 leverage.
- Razengan 8y ago
  Well, in TFA, the app in question is distributed via Apple’s & Google's app stores.
  - est31 8y ago
    If Apple took that app down, they'd disappear in the blink of an eye. Doesn't make it right to keep it up but they have no power whatsoever. It's the basic dilemma in any authoritarian society: do you want to protect your values or yourself. Choose one, and often you get neither. Being able to protect both is a luxury.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    If they made the ad again today, the hammers would be thrown in the other direction.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    The Google Play Store is not available in China; Android apps are distributed in China through a variety of Chinese-based app stores. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billions-in-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/17/google-misses-out-on-billion...
    - Razengan 8y ago
      Ah sorry, I assumed Android == Google Play Store.
  - leavjenn 8y ago
    And you can't rate & review this app on Apple App Store.[0] I think only some apps made by Apple have this privilege. [0]https://imgur.com/a/60gdRZs https://imgur.com/a/60gdRZs
    - Razengan 8y ago
      That's interesting...and disturbing. Why? Someone should press Tim Cook about this.
      - candiodari 8y ago
        No they shouldn't. If anything this protects people. Just imagine people getting "caught" rating this. If it wasn't impossible, people might accidentally rate it badly. This would do nothing to stop this, but might really be a problem for them.
- arduanika 8y ago
  > 0 leverage How about trade policies that take into account human rights? Unless you include western politicians and newspapers among "their tools". In that case, you're right, we have no hope of exercising leverage.
ZhuanXia 8y ago
China has the highest quality human capital in the world and a huge population. There is nothing we can do that they cannot. It is a shame how things are turning in China. There was always the potential for greater authoritarianism and it seems to be arriving.
- umvi 8y ago
  > There is nothing we can do that they cannot. Well, we can think freely and innovate, a problem China seems to struggle with. You can't command people to be inventive. You can, however, command people to copy other people's ideas.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    Soviet Union was highly authoritarian, but was able to keep innovations coming where it mattered, that is, around military technology. The word to google is "sharashka". OTOH Soviet Union sucked at innovation everywhere else, which was costly. Inability to feed the population when still keeping up in the arms race is what killed Soviet Union. China is seemingly quite far from such a situation, though.
    - est31 8y ago
      North korea is still a bit like that. Everything is underfunded to the degree that you are aloted a strip of a public road that you have to keep clean with brooms including in winter (something usually done by the state), except for their nuclear research department.
  - est31 8y ago
    China has had a bad century (they call it "century of humiliation" [1]) but before that it was the biggest economy in the world. Don't underestimate them. Yes, in many industries they are still heavily stealing IP but the notion that China is just copying the west is outdated. An increasing amount of intellectuals stays in China instead of emigrating to the west. They already are world leaders in key areas like computer hardware (shenzen), and are working very hard at becoming world leaders in other areas. There are two futures ahead of us: either the regime falling and China ruling over the world like the US did in the 20th and early 21st century, or the regime remaining in power and China's head of state ascending to global dictator. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
etse 8y ago
No, but falsifying successful app activity is apparently how some resist the Chinese government.
_bxg1 8y ago
A much more effective strategy would be providing tools to empower those with the desire to resist or circumvent the system.
the_fonz 8y ago
There's no technical panacea to this undesirable behavior. Sanctions against party elites would be a start by preventing them from banking or traveling freely.