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Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting

Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...

pdonis 8y ago
> I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.
- diminoten 8y ago
  That's not how opinions work at all. An opinion can be true or false, justified or not. I'm not countering anyone's opinion with my own opinion, I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions, and then offering my own alternative opinion that isn't proven wrong.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Ah so now you rope back around to the actual conversation. Nope, you've poisoned this well too much with your semantic nonsense, you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death.
      - pdonis 8y ago
        > you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.
        diminoten 8y ago
        All you're doing is being petty and generally terrible. Why?
        lolc 8y ago
        I've been watching this thread in amazement. If this is how you communicate with people you'll often have your style described as petty and terrible. Are you just repeating what you hear yourself a lot?
chmod775 8y ago
> Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron. > Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. Let me quote yourself at you: > Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion... As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself. > And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar... I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people. I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.
- diminoten 8y ago
  Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.

pdonis 8y ago

> I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.

diminoten 8y ago
That's not how opinions work at all. An opinion can be true or false, justified or not. I'm not countering anyone's opinion with my own opinion, I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions, and then offering my own alternative opinion that isn't proven wrong.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    Ah so now you rope back around to the actual conversation. Nope, you've poisoned this well too much with your semantic nonsense, you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      > you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        All you're doing is being petty and generally terrible. Why?
        lolc 8y ago
        I've been watching this thread in amazement. If this is how you communicate with people you'll often have your style described as petty and terrible. Are you just repeating what you hear yourself a lot?

chmod775 8y ago

> Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron. > Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. Let me quote yourself at you: > Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion... As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself. > And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar... I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people. I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.

diminoten 8y ago
Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.