6 ms·

An opinion can be false/wrong/a lie.

chmod775 8y ago
Something can't be an opinion and a lie by definition. Lying is consciously uttering something you belive to be untrue. It can't be your opinion at the same time. So unless you're planning to insult the people you are talking to by calling them dishonest, you should cease this way of discussing the topic. It's obvious you care greatly about this matter and tempers can understandably get heated, but people calling each other liars rarely have productive discussions that leave all parties wiser.
- diminoten 8y ago
  Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      That's not how opinions work at all. An opinion can be true or false, justified or not. I'm not countering anyone's opinion with my own opinion, I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions, and then offering my own alternative opinion that isn't proven wrong.
      - pdonis 8y ago
        > I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.
        diminoten 8y ago
        Ah so now you rope back around to the actual conversation. Nope, you've poisoned this well too much with your semantic nonsense, you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death.
        pdonis 8y ago
        > you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.
        diminoten 8y ago
        All you're doing is being petty and generally terrible. Why?
        lolc 8y ago
        I've been watching this thread in amazement. If this is how you communicate with people you'll often have your style described as petty and terrible. Are you just repeating what you hear yourself a lot?
  - chmod775 8y ago
    > Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron. > Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. Let me quote yourself at you: > Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion... As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself. > And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar... I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people. I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.
      - pdonis 8y ago
        > we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.
pdonis 8y ago
Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Opinions are opinions: nobody knows for sure which ones are right or wrong. IMO you should retract your accusation of "lie" since you have admitted you were just stating your opinion. Your opinion might not agree with someone else's opinion, but that doesn't justify you accusing them of lying.
- diminoten 8y ago
  Sorry, but I can have it this way, and it's not "both" ways, it's just one way. Opinions can be false, and it's a lie to say that death is peace. Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/false of beliefs, and the very nature of what truth is. I recommend you spend some time looking into it before you feign outrage over an unrelated topic to the one in this submission.
  - pdonis 8y ago
    > it's a lie to say that death is peace No, it's your opinion that death is not peace. "Peace" is not a word with a single fixed meaning, so you have no basis for saying that other people are lying when they express the opinion that death is peace. All you can say is that your opinion disagrees with theirs. > Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/false of beliefs, and the very nature of what truth is. I recommend you spend some time looking into it Sorry, not buying it. Blowing smoke won't change the fact that you're making an unjustified accusation of lying.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Yes, I literally do, because words have meanings and death does not mean peace, in any sense of the word. It may be peace for those still living, but for the person who is actually dead, it's not peace, it's literal nothingness for all eternity. There isn't peace in that, no matter how semantic you want to get.
      - 8y ago

Something can't be an opinion and a lie by definition. Lying is consciously uttering something you belive to be untrue. It can't be your opinion at the same time. So unless you're planning to insult the people you are talking to by calling them dishonest, you should cease this way of discussing the topic. It's obvious you care greatly about this matter and tempers can understandably get heated, but people calling each other liars rarely have productive discussions that leave all parties wiser.

diminoten 8y ago
Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar...
- pdonis 8y ago
  > I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." You can't know their opinion is wrong, because you've already admitted that's just your opinion. It's not a fact. Your opinions are not facts.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    That's not how opinions work at all. An opinion can be true or false, justified or not. I'm not countering anyone's opinion with my own opinion, I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions, and then offering my own alternative opinion that isn't proven wrong.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      > I'm pointing out facts that disprove those opinions You have pointed out no fact that justifies your accusation of lying.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        Ah so now you rope back around to the actual conversation. Nope, you've poisoned this well too much with your semantic nonsense, you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death.
        pdonis 8y ago
        > you don't deserve to benefit from anything I have to say about death You've already said what you have to say about death pretty clearly, so if I were going to derive any benefit from it, I would have already done so. But if it will set your mind at rest, no, I haven't derived any benefit from what you have to say about death.
        diminoten 8y ago
        All you're doing is being petty and generally terrible. Why?
        lolc 8y ago
        I've been watching this thread in amazement. If this is how you communicate with people you'll often have your style described as petty and terrible. Are you just repeating what you hear yourself a lot?
- chmod775 8y ago
  > Something can be an opinion and a lie by definition. Where opinion means "belief held", that's an obvious oxymoron. > Also, I don't care if I insult people by stating facts, including, "Your opinion is wrong/a lie." Getting upset about a fact is yelling at a cloud. Let me quote yourself at you: > Stop trying to interpret my opinions as facts. Are you seriously fooled into thinking what I'm saying here is even arguably fact? Of course it's my opinion... As another commenter already said, you can't have it both ways. Right now you're directly contradicting yourself. > And why is it obvious I care greatly about this matter? Because I've written less than a page's worth of content on the topic? Seems like a weirdly low bar... I said so because that would excuse your uncompromisingly hardheaded and rude conduct towards virtually everyone in this discussion. I often try to think the best of people. I have a hunch this will go nowhere and I am not going to reply to whatever comes next.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    Epistemologically, there can be false beliefs, so no it is not an oxymoron, obvious or otherwise. Basic philosophy. You're right, this will go nowhere because you're trying to have a semantics argument while also being wrong about the semantics you're trying to correct. And again, I don't care if you find me to be rude. Bringing it up is distracting from the larger conversation, about how we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients.
    - pdonis 8y ago
      > we're being sold a bill of goods by doctors about "peaceful death" because it makes their lives easier to think about, at the cost of giving up earlier on patients At last, an actual substantive statement. But unfortunately, it's still your opinion. I have no problem at all with you choosing to fight to the last and continuing to seek treatments right to the end even if you are diagnosed with a terminal illness where all known treatments have slim to no chance of success. But that's your choice, and other people might choose differently. And the problem with accusing people of lying simply because they don't share your opinion and would make a different choice from yours isn't that it's rude (though it is); it's that it's not justified.

pdonis 8y ago

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Opinions are opinions: nobody knows for sure which ones are right or wrong. IMO you should retract your accusation of "lie" since you have admitted you were just stating your opinion. Your opinion might not agree with someone else's opinion, but that doesn't justify you accusing them of lying.

diminoten 8y ago
Sorry, but I can have it this way, and it's not "both" ways, it's just one way. Opinions can be false, and it's a lie to say that death is peace. Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/false of beliefs, and the very nature of what truth is. I recommend you spend some time looking into it before you feign outrage over an unrelated topic to the one in this submission.
- pdonis 8y ago
  > it's a lie to say that death is peace No, it's your opinion that death is not peace. "Peace" is not a word with a single fixed meaning, so you have no basis for saying that other people are lying when they express the opinion that death is peace. All you can say is that your opinion disagrees with theirs. > Rudimentary philosophy will help you understand this conversation, as it covers fairly extensively the truth/false of beliefs, and the very nature of what truth is. I recommend you spend some time looking into it Sorry, not buying it. Blowing smoke won't change the fact that you're making an unjustified accusation of lying.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    Yes, I literally do, because words have meanings and death does not mean peace, in any sense of the word. It may be peace for those still living, but for the person who is actually dead, it's not peace, it's literal nothingness for all eternity. There isn't peace in that, no matter how semantic you want to get.
    - 8y ago