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I think the most practical problem of wealth disparity isn't between the rich and the poor, but between the growing upper middle class and lower middle class. F

I think the most practical problem of wealth disparity isn't between the rich and the poor, but between the growing upper middle class and lower middle class. First, that's more visible to the lower middle class than a few distant billionaires. Second, it's a much larger volume of wealth and influence overall. Much of what squeezes the poor -- housing, land, education, healthcare -- are the result of common voters, not billionaire interests. The ACA, for example, is a great law for entrepreneurial software developers, not so for the lower income small businesses, because of the increased costs. Nothing holding back the working class is caused by plutocrats. Edit: Lyft is another example of this. Abstractly, wealthier riders are colluding (via Lyft) to drive down margins of unskilled workers.

rileymat2 8y ago
>The ACA, for example, is a great law for entrepreneurial software developers, not so for the lower income small businesses, because of the increased costs. I am curious if this is a factual critique? Some quick research. https://www.healthcare.gov/small-businesses/learn-more/how-aca-affects-businesses/ https://www.healthcare.gov/small-businesses/learn-more/how-a... https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-families/find-out-how-aca-affects-employers-with-fewer-than-50-employees https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-fami... https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2018/oct/affordable-care-act-impact-small-business https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... But this is not may area of expertise, so I cannot judge.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  I am specifically talking about business owners' ability to get health coverage for themselves and their families, not requirements around getting coverage for their employees. This class of people includes lawyers, consultants, Uber/Lyft/Taxi drivers, plumbers, roofers, and landscapers. People like me benefit from the ACA. People that make less money now have to spend more on insurance for their family.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
Barrin92 8y ago
>Nothing holding back the working class is caused by plutocrats. Rich opaque individual families, particularly since Citizens United, have played an important political role in enabling the redistribution towards the upper middle class and the politics responsible for it. So yes, while in material terms the bigger squeeze for the working class and the poor is the "petite bourgeoisie" rather than Jeff Bezos, the political corruption to a significant degree can be traced back to donors and shouldn't be neglected. This is especially relevant in the context of Dalio's criticism because he is not just identifying problems, but also demanding that there is a quick, top-down solution to those problems. That requires us to ask why institutions allow bad policy in the first place. You can have the best, most wonkish proposals for how to solve every problem, and there's no shortage of people who propose to have found them. What is lacking is clearly the ability to execute them.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  What do you think would be different about the situation right now if the Citizens United decision had gone the other way?
  - Barrin92 8y ago
    The influence of superPAC's would not be present in politics. CU was often associated with the fear of corporate money, which hasn't come to pass, but the real result was the creation of a sort of private, shadow politics that has been facilitated by it. And that is in my opinion even more dangerous. As a result you have families like the Mercer's influencing the entire political spectrum through side channels that are quite unprecedented in any modern democracy.
    - SamReidHughes 8y ago
      I was asking what would be materially different about the situation under discussion, because it's a good exercise to think in terms of that -- what would be different about outcomes -- instead of reciting generalities about political influence.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> The ACA, for example, is a great law for entrepreneurial software developers, not so for the lower income small businesses, because of the increased costs. Nothing holding back the working class is caused by plutocrats. The ACA is what happens when you try to appease plutocrats (specifically in the financial services sector) when dealing with deep problems for non-plutocrats. > Abstractly, wealthier riders are colluding (via Lyft) to drive down margins of unskilled workers. The idea that the plutocrats (e.g., VCs) have nothing to do with Lyft is amusing, but not exactly factual.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  Aren't VC's subsidizing rides? The fact is, or my guess is, with or without VC's, ride sharing was a technological inevitability. Edit: I ignored your point about the ACA, and I think the ACA is the worst of my examples. The health industry is and was previously such a clusterfuck, and there are many "interests" there -- and my impression is (I'd be happy to get slapped down on this), much like education, the industry is full of nonprofits, not plutocrats.

rileymat2 8y ago

>The ACA, for example, is a great law for entrepreneurial software developers, not so for the lower income small businesses, because of the increased costs. I am curious if this is a factual critique? Some quick research. https://www.healthcare.gov/small-businesses/learn-more/how-aca-affects-businesses/ https://www.healthcare.gov/small-businesses/learn-more/how-a... https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-families/find-out-how-aca-affects-employers-with-fewer-than-50-employees https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-fami... https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2018/oct/affordable-care-act-impact-small-business https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2... But this is not may area of expertise, so I cannot judge.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
I am specifically talking about business owners' ability to get health coverage for themselves and their families, not requirements around getting coverage for their employees. This class of people includes lawyers, consultants, Uber/Lyft/Taxi drivers, plumbers, roofers, and landscapers. People like me benefit from the ACA. People that make less money now have to spend more on insurance for their family.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

Barrin92 8y ago

>Nothing holding back the working class is caused by plutocrats. Rich opaque individual families, particularly since Citizens United, have played an important political role in enabling the redistribution towards the upper middle class and the politics responsible for it. So yes, while in material terms the bigger squeeze for the working class and the poor is the "petite bourgeoisie" rather than Jeff Bezos, the political corruption to a significant degree can be traced back to donors and shouldn't be neglected. This is especially relevant in the context of Dalio's criticism because he is not just identifying problems, but also demanding that there is a quick, top-down solution to those problems. That requires us to ask why institutions allow bad policy in the first place. You can have the best, most wonkish proposals for how to solve every problem, and there's no shortage of people who propose to have found them. What is lacking is clearly the ability to execute them.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
What do you think would be different about the situation right now if the Citizens United decision had gone the other way?
- Barrin92 8y ago
  The influence of superPAC's would not be present in politics. CU was often associated with the fear of corporate money, which hasn't come to pass, but the real result was the creation of a sort of private, shadow politics that has been facilitated by it. And that is in my opinion even more dangerous. As a result you have families like the Mercer's influencing the entire political spectrum through side channels that are quite unprecedented in any modern democracy.
  - SamReidHughes 8y ago
    I was asking what would be materially different about the situation under discussion, because it's a good exercise to think in terms of that -- what would be different about outcomes -- instead of reciting generalities about political influence.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> The ACA, for example, is a great law for entrepreneurial software developers, not so for the lower income small businesses, because of the increased costs. Nothing holding back the working class is caused by plutocrats. The ACA is what happens when you try to appease plutocrats (specifically in the financial services sector) when dealing with deep problems for non-plutocrats. > Abstractly, wealthier riders are colluding (via Lyft) to drive down margins of unskilled workers. The idea that the plutocrats (e.g., VCs) have nothing to do with Lyft is amusing, but not exactly factual.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
Aren't VC's subsidizing rides? The fact is, or my guess is, with or without VC's, ride sharing was a technological inevitability. Edit: I ignored your point about the ACA, and I think the ACA is the worst of my examples. The health industry is and was previously such a clusterfuck, and there are many "interests" there -- and my impression is (I'd be happy to get slapped down on this), much like education, the industry is full of nonprofits, not plutocrats.