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>"If someone doesn't send a thank you email, don't hire them". I recently went through a short job search for programming work in Austin. I made it all the way

>"If someone doesn't send a thank you email, don't hire them". I recently went through a short job search for programming work in Austin. I made it all the way to the final, on-site interview at three places before landing an offer. Every time I did not get an offer, I would get an email saying "thank you so much for your time, please reply with your concerns or questions!" And so, each time, I sent and email asking "what did I do wrong, and what could I improve?" making it very clear I was just looking for a quick, single sentence answer like "more github projects" or "you smell." I didn't get a single reply. Not one. After that, I quit playing the ultra polite send-a-thank-you for every single phone call or meeting I was graced with, and sure enough, I got a couple job offers after that. If anything, the whole experience convinced me that no one maybe outside of sales or filling an executive position really cares about this kind of business etiquette - either in giving it or receiving it.

rhizome 8y ago
After that, I quit playing the ultra polite send-a-thank-you for every single phone call or meeting I was graced with, and sure enough, I got a couple job offers after that. I wouldn't be surprised if deciding not to worry about details with unknowable significance and inconsistent response allowed you to relax a bit more in future interviews.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  Same trick worked for young me when I started dating...
  - meansSomething 8y ago
    Probably means trying to master that one little trick (interviewers hate him) is for the birds.
- noitsnot 8y ago
  Confidence is key and they need to be selling themselves as much or more than you. You don't really need the job. If there is a way to swing disinterested interviewers is another story.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  > I wouldn't be surprised if deciding not to worry about details with unknowable significance and inconsistent response allowed you to relax a bit more in future interviews. Oh, for sure. I hadn't interviewed for over a decade, and was super keyed up for the first few this time around. After my attitude changed to more of a "meh, I can take this or leave it" they got a whole lot easier.
  - rhizome 8y ago
    I got a recruiter email just today looking for people with my skills and "passion."
overgard 8y ago
I can't even remember ever asking for feedback from an interview. It's awkward for the employer, especially if they're going through a lot of candidates, and usually if I don't pass an interview I tend to know why. I mean if you're socially intelligent, usually you can tell if you've said something they don't like. Plus I imagine a lot of employers probably have policies against answering that kind of question just for liability reasons, or just to not drag things out.
- techslave 8y ago
  i ask every interviewer for feedback at the end. asking the recruiter is a waste of time. when i conduct interviews, i have not once had anyone ask for feedback. however, i offer it unsolicited and candidates seem to appreciate it.
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
Because if they told you that you smell, you could counter that being tidy was not in the job description and take them to the court. They'd rather be safe.
- ALittleLight 8y ago
  "If there's no response to this email, I'll consider that a criticism of my personal hygiene. As you know, hygiene is not part of the job, and therefore I would consider rejection on such grounds legally actionable." If you added this line to every follow up email, that would at least remove the uncertainty about whether or not you would get the offer.
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    Dear applicant, Such and such corporation is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate the candidates based on their race, age, gender, veteran status or smell. Regards, A poor HR guy who now has to send these emails to all candidates.
- ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
  That's some upside down logic, in my opinion. Getting a job isn't a right, so there's no violation of your rights, hence, no grounds to pursue support in a courtroom. What am I not getting?
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    I am no a lawyer, but I think an employer may have an obligation to treat all applicants fairly and equally. It may be theoretically possible to say that not forewarning a person about certain requirements may put some people in disadvantaged position. Mostly likely it will be thrown away in the court, but why would you risk?
LawnboyMax 8y ago
There is no incentive for a company to spend their time explaining what you did wrong at an interview if they are already sure they don't want to hire you. And if the reason for not choosing you is not very constructive, there's no point at all in sharing it. Your best bet might be to ask about how you did at the end of the interview. I had some luck with interviewers explaining me a solution to an interview problem that they would consider perfect.
Gravityloss 8y ago
Aren't there legal reasons why it's unfavorable to the company to really go into too much detail why they didn't hire someone?
- ogdrhr 8y ago
  Yes, there's no way to win as the hiring entity, you just open yourself up to discrimination lawsuits. So it's better to do the inhuman thing and say nothing!
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    That's right. The other reason to not give feedback is the rejectee will inevitably start arguing with you about it, demand more detail, try to reopen negotiations, tell you how unfair/wrong you are, etc. I've tried it both ways. Not giving feedback works much, much better.
- chillacy 8y ago
  Yes so if you’re gonna ask this question ask over phone not email! I’ve successfully gotten feedback by doing this. Not in super detail but very good general feedback.
fencepost 8y ago
each time, I sent and email asking "what did I do wrong, and what could I improve?" There's no upside for the company in giving any substantial answer to questions like this, and significant potential downside. Among other things it's generally not going to be that you were rejected for the position, it's that someone else was chosen over you. "Rejected" would be "we'd rather leave the position vacant than hire you" and if that's the case there's even more reason to not tell you unless it was for purely technical reasons.
- bloak 8y ago
  I think that's exactly right in the typical case. However, if the company is dealing with a recruitment agency it might be useful for the company to let the agency know why a candidate was not suitable, so that they get better candidates in future, and the recruitment agent (who is a "double agent" really) might pass the information on to the candidate (probably not in writing). I've heard of that happening. Also, in cases where there isn't a position to be filled, but the interviewee is trying to persuade the company to create the position, in those cases the company can be a bit more open in saying why they have decided not to proceed. I've heard of that happening, too.
brandonmenc 8y ago
Replying to everyone here telling me "duh why would they"- I get that, and really, I'm not surprised. The problem I have is that a lot of these rejection letters are worded in a very touchy-feely way where they actually write some version of, "if you have any questions don't hesitate to message back!" That is what bothers me. Like, if you're not going to answer my questions, just say so upfront. (side note: I don't just say "why didn't I get the job" - I follow the advice of the countless "how to ask why you didn't get the job" articles out there that tell you to frame it in terms of questions they can safely answer like, "was someone more qualified than me" or "would it have helped if I had more experience with...", etc.)
autarch 8y ago
At my current position, part of our hiring process is a "homework" piece where we give you a project that should take around 3 hours and review the result. Surprisingly (to me), I was able to get permission to share feedback with candidates we reject. I only do this when people ask, but I take the time to summarize & sanitize the feedback from our internal reviewers and try to phrase everything very neutrally ("we thought that your decision to do X was not the best way to approach this" as opposed to "X was a terrible idea"). That said, I don't think I'd be able to get permission to give feedback on the interview parts of the process. That's a bit more subjective and it's _really_ easy for any sort of feedback there to become lawsuit fodder.
space_turtle 8y ago
Can confirm. Austin ghosts hard.

rhizome 8y ago

After that, I quit playing the ultra polite send-a-thank-you for every single phone call or meeting I was graced with, and sure enough, I got a couple job offers after that. I wouldn't be surprised if deciding not to worry about details with unknowable significance and inconsistent response allowed you to relax a bit more in future interviews.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
Same trick worked for young me when I started dating...
- meansSomething 8y ago
  Probably means trying to master that one little trick (interviewers hate him) is for the birds.
noitsnot 8y ago
Confidence is key and they need to be selling themselves as much or more than you. You don't really need the job. If there is a way to swing disinterested interviewers is another story.
brandonmenc 8y ago
> I wouldn't be surprised if deciding not to worry about details with unknowable significance and inconsistent response allowed you to relax a bit more in future interviews. Oh, for sure. I hadn't interviewed for over a decade, and was super keyed up for the first few this time around. After my attitude changed to more of a "meh, I can take this or leave it" they got a whole lot easier.
- rhizome 8y ago
  I got a recruiter email just today looking for people with my skills and "passion."

overgard 8y ago

I can't even remember ever asking for feedback from an interview. It's awkward for the employer, especially if they're going through a lot of candidates, and usually if I don't pass an interview I tend to know why. I mean if you're socially intelligent, usually you can tell if you've said something they don't like. Plus I imagine a lot of employers probably have policies against answering that kind of question just for liability reasons, or just to not drag things out.

techslave 8y ago
i ask every interviewer for feedback at the end. asking the recruiter is a waste of time. when i conduct interviews, i have not once had anyone ask for feedback. however, i offer it unsolicited and candidates seem to appreciate it.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

Because if they told you that you smell, you could counter that being tidy was not in the job description and take them to the court. They'd rather be safe.

ALittleLight 8y ago
"If there's no response to this email, I'll consider that a criticism of my personal hygiene. As you know, hygiene is not part of the job, and therefore I would consider rejection on such grounds legally actionable." If you added this line to every follow up email, that would at least remove the uncertainty about whether or not you would get the offer.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  Dear applicant, Such and such corporation is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate the candidates based on their race, age, gender, veteran status or smell. Regards, A poor HR guy who now has to send these emails to all candidates.
ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
That's some upside down logic, in my opinion. Getting a job isn't a right, so there's no violation of your rights, hence, no grounds to pursue support in a courtroom. What am I not getting?
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  I am no a lawyer, but I think an employer may have an obligation to treat all applicants fairly and equally. It may be theoretically possible to say that not forewarning a person about certain requirements may put some people in disadvantaged position. Mostly likely it will be thrown away in the court, but why would you risk?

LawnboyMax 8y ago

There is no incentive for a company to spend their time explaining what you did wrong at an interview if they are already sure they don't want to hire you. And if the reason for not choosing you is not very constructive, there's no point at all in sharing it. Your best bet might be to ask about how you did at the end of the interview. I had some luck with interviewers explaining me a solution to an interview problem that they would consider perfect.

Gravityloss 8y ago

Aren't there legal reasons why it's unfavorable to the company to really go into too much detail why they didn't hire someone?

ogdrhr 8y ago
Yes, there's no way to win as the hiring entity, you just open yourself up to discrimination lawsuits. So it's better to do the inhuman thing and say nothing!
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  That's right. The other reason to not give feedback is the rejectee will inevitably start arguing with you about it, demand more detail, try to reopen negotiations, tell you how unfair/wrong you are, etc. I've tried it both ways. Not giving feedback works much, much better.
chillacy 8y ago
Yes so if you’re gonna ask this question ask over phone not email! I’ve successfully gotten feedback by doing this. Not in super detail but very good general feedback.

fencepost 8y ago

each time, I sent and email asking "what did I do wrong, and what could I improve?" There's no upside for the company in giving any substantial answer to questions like this, and significant potential downside. Among other things it's generally not going to be that you were rejected for the position, it's that someone else was chosen over you. "Rejected" would be "we'd rather leave the position vacant than hire you" and if that's the case there's even more reason to not tell you unless it was for purely technical reasons.

bloak 8y ago
I think that's exactly right in the typical case. However, if the company is dealing with a recruitment agency it might be useful for the company to let the agency know why a candidate was not suitable, so that they get better candidates in future, and the recruitment agent (who is a "double agent" really) might pass the information on to the candidate (probably not in writing). I've heard of that happening. Also, in cases where there isn't a position to be filled, but the interviewee is trying to persuade the company to create the position, in those cases the company can be a bit more open in saying why they have decided not to proceed. I've heard of that happening, too.

brandonmenc 8y ago

Replying to everyone here telling me "duh why would they"- I get that, and really, I'm not surprised. The problem I have is that a lot of these rejection letters are worded in a very touchy-feely way where they actually write some version of, "if you have any questions don't hesitate to message back!" That is what bothers me. Like, if you're not going to answer my questions, just say so upfront. (side note: I don't just say "why didn't I get the job" - I follow the advice of the countless "how to ask why you didn't get the job" articles out there that tell you to frame it in terms of questions they can safely answer like, "was someone more qualified than me" or "would it have helped if I had more experience with...", etc.)

autarch 8y ago

At my current position, part of our hiring process is a "homework" piece where we give you a project that should take around 3 hours and review the result. Surprisingly (to me), I was able to get permission to share feedback with candidates we reject. I only do this when people ask, but I take the time to summarize & sanitize the feedback from our internal reviewers and try to phrase everything very neutrally ("we thought that your decision to do X was not the best way to approach this" as opposed to "X was a terrible idea"). That said, I don't think I'd be able to get permission to give feedback on the interview parts of the process. That's a bit more subjective and it's _really_ easy for any sort of feedback there to become lawsuit fodder.

space_turtle 8y ago

Can confirm. Austin ghosts hard.