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Meat is very calorie dense due to the fat content -- if you don't eat it, you need to substitute a plant food that is also relatively calorie dense (like beans,

Meat is very calorie dense due to the fat content -- if you don't eat it, you need to substitute a plant food that is also relatively calorie dense (like beans, lentils, or potatoes) but also, probably just eat more of it. I found that I needed to eat more when I became a vegan, and even more now that I'm trying to put on muscle mass. Also, beans are a good substitute because they tend to dampen blood sugar swings, due to the way they feed our gut flora. And a sudden drop in blood sugar is a big reason for feeling hungry. This property of beans is known as the "second meal effect". Note that just because you are slim and not having health issues, does not mean that meat is not gradually harming your health. There is rather overwhelming evidence that the cholesterol and saturated fat in meat is harmful to our circulatory health, and also that meat protein intake is linked to cancer growth by triggering the body to create IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Gactor 1). Many people feel like (or are told) that they are craving protein, when in reality what they are craving is just more calories. Consider that most of us have had a lifetime to figure out what works for us with a meat-based diet, and were taught by our parents -- switching to a different diet isn't trivial. There are lots of good resources out there, but unfortunately, also lots of misinformation.

iscrewyou 8y ago
When you say meats, do you mean all meats? I am genuinely asking. My diet is more based on poultry than red meats. I've always heard red meat is not good for you in long term. So, I wonder if these effects that you mentioned are more pronounced with a certain kind of meat. Seems like you've done a lot of research and I am curious.
mises 8y ago
> you need to substitute a plant food that is also relatively calorie dense (like beans, lentils, or potatoes) I tried this; not much help. I was used to a diet of essentially no carbs (and had found it beneficial for me), and actually switched because I had a friend who would not shut up about not eating meat and wouldn't stop until I did. I can indeed eat more, but occasionally I would get full and still not feel "full". > meat is harmful to our circulatory health I'm not so sure about this one. I've read about the adverse effects of IGF-1 with respect to cancer, but that seems to be more because it is a growth hormone. Is it any wonder a growth hormone can cause caner to grow? IGF-1, by keeping new cells forming, could help mitigate things like lower bone density and lower muscle tone with age. I've tried replacing protein-calories with carb-calories. I gained a good amount of weight doing so, and didn't feel nearly as good. I'm much happier and healthier back on my old diet. Lots of meat (mostly white)/eggs/fish, a good amount of veggies, some fruit, lots of nuts, lots of dairy. Almost no sugar/soda/fried stuff/other such junk. Maybe different people do best on different diets, and we should recognize that what's good for one is not always good for another. What irritates me is when people get sanctimonious about it and say that I'm evil if I don't eat their diet, even when my quality of life, health, and productivity is significantly better doing it my way.
- windexh8er 8y ago
  > I tried this; not much help. I was used to a diet of essentially no carbs (and had found it beneficial for me), and actually switched because I had a friend who would not shut up about not eating meat and wouldn't stop until I did. I can indeed eat more, but occasionally I would get full and still not feel "full". The question I ask when people bring this up is always: what type of carbs? Generally you know you're eating junk carbs when the ratio of carbohydrates to fiber is greater than 5 to 1 [0]. Processed carbs will help you pack on the weight fast, especially since most processed carbs are all coming from non-whole grains. A lot of my friends/colleagues like to claim they're on a low/no carb diet. When posed with the question of how they get fiber or critical vitamins/nutrients they're failing to understand that all plants have carbs. A cup of kale has 6 grams in fact. The better approach should be to look at what type of carbs you're consuming vs eating less of all of them. The SAD consumer is often getting very little dietary fiber, unfortunately and even more so now with a lot of the misinformation about how carbs are blanket bad. [0] https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/05/08/follow-the-5-to-1-rule-for-packaged-foods/ https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/05/08/follow-the-5-to-1-rule...
  - mises 8y ago
    > what type of carbs? When I say carbs, I mostly mean grains, potatoes. I know most everything contains at least some, but it's a bit of a colloquialism and hard to avoid. Some occasional beans, oats, etc. I tried eating more of these as part of a diet, and beans were somewhat of a help, but I still didn't feel the same. > A cup of kale has 6 grams I hate kale. Everyone pushes it as a superfood, but the texture is disgusting. Also, a recent report showed it had tons of pesticides. I can't help wondering if people eat it out of the same mentality that makes us think medicine should taste bad. > dietary fiber I think I put this above, but I ate beans, nuts, some oats, and fruits and veggies. I just had a lot of meat as well (as in, half to three-fifths of my plate). I wasn't on the typical Western-pattern diet by any means. I honestly believe a plant-based diet just doens't work for everyone. And I will continue eating what works best for me, though I'm always open to trying something that could be better (the entire reason I tried plant-based in the first place).

iscrewyou 8y ago

When you say meats, do you mean all meats? I am genuinely asking. My diet is more based on poultry than red meats. I've always heard red meat is not good for you in long term. So, I wonder if these effects that you mentioned are more pronounced with a certain kind of meat. Seems like you've done a lot of research and I am curious.

mises 8y ago

> you need to substitute a plant food that is also relatively calorie dense (like beans, lentils, or potatoes) I tried this; not much help. I was used to a diet of essentially no carbs (and had found it beneficial for me), and actually switched because I had a friend who would not shut up about not eating meat and wouldn't stop until I did. I can indeed eat more, but occasionally I would get full and still not feel "full". > meat is harmful to our circulatory health I'm not so sure about this one. I've read about the adverse effects of IGF-1 with respect to cancer, but that seems to be more because it is a growth hormone. Is it any wonder a growth hormone can cause caner to grow? IGF-1, by keeping new cells forming, could help mitigate things like lower bone density and lower muscle tone with age. I've tried replacing protein-calories with carb-calories. I gained a good amount of weight doing so, and didn't feel nearly as good. I'm much happier and healthier back on my old diet. Lots of meat (mostly white)/eggs/fish, a good amount of veggies, some fruit, lots of nuts, lots of dairy. Almost no sugar/soda/fried stuff/other such junk. Maybe different people do best on different diets, and we should recognize that what's good for one is not always good for another. What irritates me is when people get sanctimonious about it and say that I'm evil if I don't eat their diet, even when my quality of life, health, and productivity is significantly better doing it my way.

windexh8er 8y ago
> I tried this; not much help. I was used to a diet of essentially no carbs (and had found it beneficial for me), and actually switched because I had a friend who would not shut up about not eating meat and wouldn't stop until I did. I can indeed eat more, but occasionally I would get full and still not feel "full". The question I ask when people bring this up is always: what type of carbs? Generally you know you're eating junk carbs when the ratio of carbohydrates to fiber is greater than 5 to 1 [0]. Processed carbs will help you pack on the weight fast, especially since most processed carbs are all coming from non-whole grains. A lot of my friends/colleagues like to claim they're on a low/no carb diet. When posed with the question of how they get fiber or critical vitamins/nutrients they're failing to understand that all plants have carbs. A cup of kale has 6 grams in fact. The better approach should be to look at what type of carbs you're consuming vs eating less of all of them. The SAD consumer is often getting very little dietary fiber, unfortunately and even more so now with a lot of the misinformation about how carbs are blanket bad. [0] https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/05/08/follow-the-5-to-1-rule-for-packaged-foods/ https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/05/08/follow-the-5-to-1-rule...
- mises 8y ago
  > what type of carbs? When I say carbs, I mostly mean grains, potatoes. I know most everything contains at least some, but it's a bit of a colloquialism and hard to avoid. Some occasional beans, oats, etc. I tried eating more of these as part of a diet, and beans were somewhat of a help, but I still didn't feel the same. > A cup of kale has 6 grams I hate kale. Everyone pushes it as a superfood, but the texture is disgusting. Also, a recent report showed it had tons of pesticides. I can't help wondering if people eat it out of the same mentality that makes us think medicine should taste bad. > dietary fiber I think I put this above, but I ate beans, nuts, some oats, and fruits and veggies. I just had a lot of meat as well (as in, half to three-fifths of my plate). I wasn't on the typical Western-pattern diet by any means. I honestly believe a plant-based diet just doens't work for everyone. And I will continue eating what works best for me, though I'm always open to trying something that could be better (the entire reason I tried plant-based in the first place).