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Facebook Team Lands at Delhi Man's House for ID Verification over Political Post
- webmobdev 8y ago> "It was like cops come to your door for passport verification. The Facebook representative asked me to prove my credentials by asking for my Aadhaar card and other documents to understand if I am the one who had posted the political content," the person, who did not wish to be named, told IANS. How many of you would have told the guy to f* off, even if it meant losing your FB account?
- jacquesm 8y ago> How many of you would have told the guy to f* off, even if it meant losing your FB account? I wouldn't just tell them to fuck off but call LE on them, it's really not up to FB to send goons to your house to demand paperwork.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> but call LE on them For what? Anyone can ask anyone for paperwork. People can just say no. It doesn't really sound like a police matter, does it? (Unless there's different laws in India, but it's common-law isn't it?)
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoIn Australia we are frequently reminded that scammers operate by posing. In that context the correct thing to do is report the incident to police, that way the police can, if they get enough reports, raise an alert through their usual channels to advise the populace to be on the lookout for scammers operating in a particular manner. Call me paranoid, but I always assume anyone claiming to be from <company> or <government> to be a scammer until proven otherwise, and I tell them that: “if I can’t authenticate you then we can’t communicate, and it’s up to your organisation to work out how to do that”.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> I always assume anyone claiming to be from <company> or <government> to be a scammer until proven otherwise Yeah, tell them 'no thanks', or just don't answer the door to people you aren't expecting. None of this is a police matter though.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoPerhaps you misunderstood the part about how we are encouraged to report these sorts of incidents so law enforcement can be aware of what is occurring in the community. The police aren’t about to send a car out to investigate every report, or probably any of them. But they can and do raise alerts via their website and social media to advise residents of suspicious activity. Again, this is in Australia, where I live. Known to be the prototypical nanny-state, but it does have some benefits.
- scarejunba 8y agoOh my God. Do you live in Atherton or something? I always wondered what it would be like to see this stuff live - the frivolous use of police time. The purse-clutching here is unbelievable.
- friedman23 8y ago>I wouldn't just tell them to fuck off but call LE on them How can you even justify this?
- jacquesm 8y agoBecause total strangers appearing at my door to ask for (copies of) identity papers could easily be a precursor to identity fraud. It may surprise you but where I live we are actively encouraged to report suspicious situations to the police: https://www.politie.nl/themas/melden.html https://www.politie.nl/themas/melden.html We also do not have an adversarial relationship with the police, and they genuinely appreciate citizens reporting behavior that is or could be illegal. Some older family members have been scammed by people at their door claiming to be from utility companies, without an official established policy of companies like FB and others doing 'in person' KYC my first assumption would be that something shady is going on.
- kumarharsh 8y agoThis sounds very weird. It's OK if the user has consented to it, but this feels more like the company taking law in it's own hands. Hope it's a one off rather than becoming a norm.
- vidarh 8y agoPart of the problem is that unless the consent is very explicitly communicated so that there is no doubt, it has the potential to pose substantial risks to people. When I was at school, I remember a student that went abroad that had to get assistance to find new housing after she'd been thrown out by her host family just for receiving a letter from the political youth organization she was a member of at home in Norway, for example (she was a member of Socialist Youth - the youth organization of a mainstream left wing party that has since been part of ruling coalitions, nothing remotely extremist, but too much for her particular host family). That was a benign situation compared to what might happen if Facebook starts outing peoples political views to people they may have no expectation of sharing their views with, but who has physical access. I don't this process will survive contact with the real world very long before they get sued.
- sacheendra 8y agoIf the person didn't want the political views to be public, they shouldn't have tried to buy ads about them.
- vidarh 8y agoThere is a difference between wanting their views to be public and wanting your neighbours, parents, co-workers etc. to know about them. Through a lot of human history, people have fought for certain views exactly because they faced oppression and immediate risk to their person for those views. E.g. gay people wanting equal rights in societies where they at times may place their life at risk to come forward.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoPeople with such concerns should launch their own social media platform so they don't have to be subject to someone else's rules.
- AndrewKemendo 8y agoI'm convinced we're going to see one of these tech giants eventually challenge a nation state for sovereignty.
- Razengan 8y agoUntil the people with the actual physical weapons (militaries) get fed up with everyone's bullshit and take shit into their own hands.
- AndrewKemendo 8y agoPrivate militaries are an older concept than even nation states. At one point in the recent past, Chevron had the one of the largest Navies (with weapons) in the world.
- Razengan 8y agoThe point remains: Why would/should the people with weapons remain subservient to those without?
- jstanley 8y agoThe point is that the people with lots of money and no weapons can easily get weapons.
- cazum 8y agoIt's not unprecedented for a nation's military to become subservient to foreign interests. Look at what the military in Columbia did in the 20s under direction from The United Fruit Company: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre
- AndrewKemendo 8y agoNot all weapons are equal. Lets say, Facebook/Google/Amazon provides better infrastructure and security services to some community in India than the local municipality can, because it pays more for it, then the community might actually prefer them. Now the corporation has a foothold, with armed security services, that are more powerful than the state security - and with the will of the people. Alphabet is dipping it's toe into the water here with Sidewalk labs. It's not state to state competition like you may be thinking. That's not how this happens. It's a slow creep/encroachment until you realize you're outgunned and the enemy owns the inside of the wire.
- thewhitetulip 8y agoWow this is creepy at too many levels. On other side, will they also start sending teams across India at all "Chowkidar's" posts P.s. Chowkidar is the prefix ruling party's followers apply on social media
- gpm 8y agoIt sounds like this was done as a result of attempting to buy political ads? If so I don't think I have a problem with it. If Facebook wants to verify the identity of someone they are doing business with in person - why shouldn't they be able to? It does sound prohibitively expensive for facebook except for huge ad buys though.
- webmobdev 8y ago> It sounds like this was done as a result of attempting to buy political ads? No. They wanted to verify if the FB user had indeed posted the political post, and demanded his / her ID to verify the posters "credentials".
- gpm 8y agoYou're sure? The article contains the following highly suggestive quote, and "sponsored posts" (aka ads) are a thing. > When it comes to those who wants to run political ads on Facebook, the company verifies residency of advertisers either by physical verification (by sending someone to the address provided) or by sending a code in the post.
- callmeal 8y ago>> When it comes to those who wants to run political ads on Facebook, the company verifies residency of advertisers either by physical verification (by sending someone to the address provided) or by sending a code in the post. That sentence in the article is a non-sequitur, and only goes to show that FB verify advertisers. The rest of the article makes it clear that the FB representatives were there over a post. Not an advertisement.
- jimrandomh 8y agoThis makes sense. Remember, Facebook has had a problem with bots mass-producing fake identities and using them to spread political content. To develop a bot detector, they need to occasionally check the ground truth of which accounts are real and which are fake.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago> This makes sense. I'm going to go with: No, no it doesn't make any sense at all. How can anyone authenticate the person coming to their door? That person could be anyone phishing for personal identifying information, or casing the joint. Probably the best thing do to is say nothing, close the door, and report the incident to the police.
- Jolter 8y agoI'm going to wait for some verification for this story. Sounds too weird to be true.
- despera 8y agoThat's exactly what i said myself few days ago when i saw that article about facebook asking users' email password, until it was verified.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoGood idea, but it sounds plausible to me given their recent activities, like calling the cops on folks they think are suicidal. Though maybe that just supports the comment about social engineering and identify theft: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19598105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19598105
- sigmar 8y agoEither this anonymous person was promoting posts or a group (ie paying facebook) or he was tricked by someone that was falsely claiming to be from Facebook. Willing to bet money that Facebook is not paying employees to visit people's houses because the government doesn't like a facebook post.
- cortesoft 8y agoIt was someone trying to place a political ad, which by law can only be placed by an Indian citizen. They were verifying that it was actually placed by an Indian citizen. Isn't this what we wanted after the Russian election stuff? We want them to not foreign operatives to be able to place political ads, so they are trying to enforce that rule.
- fxbl0i 8y agoNah, what they want is to shit on Facebook, no matter what they do.
- moogly 8y agoI've long pondered whether there should be some kind of internet police. Lots of shady stuff happening all the time, but since it happens on the internet, in some kind of legal grey zone, companies and individuals get away with it. However, I did not ever envision that police to be operated by Facebook, of all companies. I was naïvely picturing a rosy future where Facebook would squarely be placed on the other side of legality.
- ilamont 8y agoWilliam Gibson portrayed this in Neuromancer in 1984, although it seemed like it was some sort of international force operated by the future equivalent of the UN, or maybe some kind of Interpol with dedicated investigators.
- int_19h 8y agoIf you mean the Turing Police, they only concerned themselves with illegal AIs.
- uasm 8y agoSocial engineering + identity theft. "Yeah, I'm from Facebook. Mind showing me your ID? Just need to clear a few things here."
- gruez 8y agoI don't see how that's any different than being carded at a bar or when buying smoke.
- kbad1000 8y agoIf true, Facebook is screwed.
- chrisseaton 8y agoWhy's it 'land'? Did they helicopter in or something? They make it sound like a special forces raid. > Only the state can act like this under proper laws Didn't they just go and knock on his door? Anyone can knock on a door. There's no law against this.
- teh_klev 8y agoIt's an Indian news site so I'm guessing their usage of english likely varies somewhat from say British english. > Anyone can knock on a door. There's no law against this Again, this happened in India, so the laws on behaviour like this may be different.
- _jgdh 8y agoThere are no laws against knocking on doors in India. If you don't want folks knocking on your doors, you would employ someone to prevent them from doing so.
- jjgreen 8y agoIt's an Indian site, and Indian English idiom can often sound odd to English or American ears.
- jogjayr 8y agoIt's a common way to say "show up unannounced" in Indian English.
- dogma1138 8y agoI wonder if it has anything to do with people showing unannounced and uninvited on the sub continent historically actually had to land there, i.e. the Portuguese and the British.
- scarejunba 8y agoMakes no sense. The subcontinent has had its fair share of land invasions that required no travel by sea.
- newnewpdro 8y agoWelcome to the future, the facebook gestapo.
- muktaakash 8y agoPerhaps, this is an example of dystopian authoratian future of India. And there is no prize for guessing.
- clay_the_ripper 8y agoThe amount of whinging about this is disappointing. Facebook has a very stringent identity verification process for political ads (I’ve gone through it multiple times). It’s not a joke. They actually really truly want to be sure you are who you say you are. To address the very problem that everyone has been complaining about. Cambridge analytica, influencing elections, etc. etc. We don’t have all the facts in the story, but: 1. Facebooks clearly states that if you want to run any kind of sponsored posts relating to political content you have to get verified. 2. That verification can take place in many different ways 3. This person was under no obligation to complete the verification process and can simply say no (and also not be allowed to run ads on Facebook) 4. If anything this shows how seriously Facebook is taking political advertising transparency 5. Can someone please explain to me how this is in any way shape or form a privacy violation?
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> Can someone please explain to me how this is in any way shape or form a privacy violation? It’s an etiquette violation. Facebook being Facebook, of course this is something they messed up. They should have sent an e-mail or verified Fb message saying “as an extra layer of security, we’d like to verify your identity in person—when is a good day in the next week when we may stop by?” (You lose the element of surprise, which gives a bad actor time to e.g. get an Airbnb and print a fake ID, but state-actor level threat models shouldn’t be assumed so early.) Maybe take over a cheap plush animal, or some other swag, as a gift for the user’s trouble. On one hand, we want Facebook to fight fake news being spread by bots and illegal political ads. On the other hand, we get outraged when they do something as simple as verify someone’s ID. I’m no fan of Facebook, and their sociopathic culture certainly helped bring this to a head, but fundamentally, they aren’t doing anything wrong.
- interurban 8y ago> but state-actor level threat models shouldn’t be assumed so early Isn't this a response to _exactly_ that threat? Nation-state election interference activities have been detected around the world.
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- auslander 8y agoRespect to news18 web devs, site froze my iOS Safari, first one in years.
- trhway 8y agoFacebook creepiness index reaches 11.
- _bxg1 8y agoSeems reasonable enough to me. The crazy thing is that we live in a world where this is necessary, not that this is what they did. Especially given that it was only done in the time and place surrounding an isolated, and very important, event.