7 ms·

P. gingivalis in Alzheimer's disease brains

176 points by Ankaios 8y ago

KSS42 8y ago
Here’s some related material: "It turns out that [amyloid-beta proteins] form [plaques] because they're trying to help us. They're trying to fight an infection," said Robert Moir, an assistant professor of neurobiology at Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts General Hospital. "The Alzheimer's disease dementia that comes after years of this battle, are something like collateral damage from their actions. But it's not that it's intrinsically bad what they're doing. It's just that if you keep doing it for long enough the amyloid that is generated in this battle starts to become a problem in itself." If this theory, which Moir outlines in a review article published in the December issue of the journal Alzheimer's & Dementia, proves true, it could mean researchers' current strategies to combat the disease — fighting the plaques — is misguided. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/dec-8-2018-why-are-users-taking-fentanyl-making-stuff-with-moon-dust-an-app-to-detect-anemia-and-more-1.4935099/have-researchers-been-wrong-about-alzheimer-s-a-new-theory-challenges-the-old-story-1.4935121 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/dec-8-2018-why-are-users-tak... The antimicrobial protection hypothesis of Alzheimer's disease: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155252601833228X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155252601...
- hprotagonist 8y ago
  given the catastrophic failure of every single plaque therapy ever tried over the last 30 years, i’m going with “certainly misguided”.
- ncmncm 8y ago
  All the other Alzheimer's researchers are not infectious-disease specialists, and have no reasonable prospect of becoming infectious-disease specialists. The overwhelming majority of Alzheimer's disease research funding still goes to them. They get veto power over most potential grants to infectious-disease groups, and publication by them in most journals. Probably the single most effective way to enable progress on Alzheimer's research would be to discover something else they could all work on, and stop blocking infectious disease specialists' work.
- theprotocol 8y ago
  Amyloid plaque accretion reminds me of cholesterol accretion, and there is a recent school of thought whereby: - Heart disease is actually caused by metabolic syndrome (read: same cause as diabetes) - Alzheimers is analogous to diabetes (some are calling it Type 3) I'm not convinced of the above, but it's interesting.
  - jayalpha 8y ago
    I found both theories promising. Your post reminded me of this pub: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709085/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709085/
    - theprotocol 8y ago
      I find the more studies I read, the higher the stakes seem, because the theories I've read are highly contradictory yet their proponents seem very polarized and very sure of themselves. Some theories that have been prematurely accepted by some groups are going to be very, very wrong. The easiest example of this sort of highly polarized dynamic is in the realm of diets.
- doctorpangloss 8y ago
  The emphasis on the plaques comes from the fact that Alzheimer’s is diagnosed by the presence of these plaques, while dementia is a symptom/presentation. I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. It probably doesn’t, not for any good biological reason, but because it doesn’t sound like any progress has been made on the biomechanics of dementia. Laypeople obviously don’t care about the plaques. They want the dementia to go away. You can make a mouse model that has a brain infection, and then potentially a model where that infection shows plaques, and then a molecule that gets rid of the infection. But it’s really hard to tell (in real life, not in science speak) if a mouse has dementia. That’s the limitation. We’re so incredibly far away from drug interventions for dementia.
  - viscanti 8y ago
    > I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. What they're saying is that after many years of fighting the infection Alzheimer's starts to develop. Certainly people who are older have the potential to have more years of infection. This seems plausible.
  - ImaCake 8y ago
    There is a clinical trial associated with the anti-gingipain treatment described in OPs study that is going into phase 2 this month. If the authors are correct, people are going to be getting this treatment for alzheimers this year.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. It probably doesn’t, not for any good biological reason How about older people not having the health required to fight the infection?
- shawnz 8y ago
  > If this theory, which Moir outlines in a review article published in the December issue of the journal Alzheimer's & Dementia, proves true, it could mean researchers' current strategies to combat the disease — fighting the plaques — is misguided. But it could still mean that preventing the plaque formation would stop the dementia, right?
  - LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
    No, if the plaques are symptoms of a disease, supressing them equals supressing infection symptoms (fever)- you basically feel better but actually prolong the disease and accelerate it somewhat.
    - ASpring 8y ago
      But that's worth exploring, right? I'm sure many people would prefer a lucid but shorter life than a longer one that is highly impacted by dementia symptoms
      - arcticbull 8y ago
        I think the idea is that the plaques are symptoms and that we should invest in the root cause. Like developing antibiotics instead of fever reducers. They both have a role, and I know where I'd allocate my resources.
      - dsego 8y ago
        Afaik, the drugs that reduce plaques have failed to actually alleviate symptoms of the disease.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >you basically feel better but actually prolong the disease and accelerate it somewhat. That might be totally fine if the effects of the disease the plaques fight are not as bad as the disease they cause -- e.g. the "prolonged" disease is not as bad as Alzheimer.
hirundo 8y ago
Ergo, floss.
ncmncm 8y ago
Money quote: "The Kgp inhibitor COR271, which has oral bioavailability and significant CNS penetration, administered orally twice a day significantly reduced bacterial load in the brain compared to the positive control infection arm and in comparison to baseline levels at 5 weeks."
- masonic 8y ago
  Any idea of cost for future therapeutic doses?
ncmncm 8y ago
Since 1999 there have been reports of Herpes-family viral infections associated with Alzheimer's, with publication only recently enabled. What is up with that work?
- jayalpha 8y ago
  Not sure I understand your question. 1. New results? Check Medline! 2. What the problem is? I vaguely remember that this might have been on hackernews recently: https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29/alzheimers-research-outsider-bucked-prevailing-theory/ https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29/alzheimers-research-outs...
eternauta3k 8y ago
Sounds like what Dale Bredesen is saying. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen
wrycoder 8y ago
From the Discussion section of TFA: “In addition, there is one other species of Porphyromonas that is known to produce gingipains, Porphyromonas gulae (61). P. gulae is a natural inhabitant of the oral cavity of companion animals such as dogs, and a recent study demonstrated that dogs can transmit P. gulae to the oral cavity of their owners (62). Research is underway to determine whether P. gulae may be contributing to the gingipain load in AD brains.”
reasonattlm 8y ago
And yet the risk increase for dementia for people with periodontitis is not large at 6% in a recent sizable study. https://www.healthinaging.org/blog/periodontitis-may-raise-the-risk-for-developing-dementia/ https://www.healthinaging.org/blog/periodontitis-may-raise-t...
- dlrush 8y ago
  Good data point. However, this suggests that the barriers between oral infection -> vascular infection -> brain infection are somewhat effective.
graeme 8y ago
>Transient bacteremia of P. gingivalis can occur during common activities such as brushing, flossing, and chewing, as well as during dental procedures (19), resulting in documented translocation to a variety of tissues including coronary arteries (20), placenta (21), and liver (22). A recent study found that 100% of patients with cardiovascular disease had P. gingivalis arterial colonization That’s extremely interesting. 100% of patients with heart disease. I’ve heard flossing may help prevent alzheimers, due to fighting gum disease. This article talks about translocation. Once bacteria has made it into the body, is it too late for gums to have any effect? Or is it more like a total bacterial load: if the gums are continuing to infect the body, the other parts of the body must fight harder to keep the invading bacteria at bay? Edit: of course, we should know how many patients of a similar age without heart disease had p. Gingivalis in their arteries
- pygy_ 8y ago
  > [...] is it too late for gums to have any effect? Or is it more like a total bacterial load [...] Probably the latter (from the article): """ A prospective observational study of [Alzheimer Disease (AD)] patients with active [Chronic Periodontis (CP)] reported a notable decline in cognition (Alzheimer’s Disease Assessment Scale—Cognitive and Mini Mental State Examination scales) over a 6-month period compared to AD patients without active CP """
- beenBoutIT 8y ago
  The outcome of this study is effectively meaningless because we don't know how common p. Gingivalis is in the general population's arteries.
  - graeme 8y ago
    I looked elsewhere in the paper and they said: >P. gingivalis is mainly found during gingival and periodontal infections; however, it can also be found at low levels in 25% of healthy individuals with no oral disease (18).
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I’ve heard flossing may help prevent alzheimers, due to fighting gum disease. I've heard flossing is only peddled by floss companies, with no real studies to recommend it. Not sure the jury is out: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-36962667 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-36962667
snarfy 8y ago
I recall reading Slackware's Patrick Volkerding's health problems were traced back to his sonic toothbrush. [1] tl;dr The sonic toothbrush was aerosolizing the bacteria in his mouth which was inhaled while brushing his teeth. [1] - https://science.slashdot.org/story/04/11/16/1846207/patrick-volkerding-battles-mystery-illness https://science.slashdot.org/story/04/11/16/1846207/patrick-...
- jwilk 8y ago
  Archived copy of the original article: https://web.archive.org/web/20041118015127if_/http://slackware.osuosl.org:80/slackware-current/PAT-NEEDS-YOUR-HELP.txt https://web.archive.org/web/20041118015127if_/http://slackwa...
wazoox 8y ago
How does this compound with the Taiwanese study on relation between herpes viruses and Alzheimer?
starchild_3001 8y ago
For an overarching theory, see the book: Microbial Burden: A Major Cause Of Aging And Age-Related Disease by by Michael Lustgarten. Also related: What if we found out that blood microbiome is the most significant marker of heart disease? E.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328378/
pc2g4d 8y ago
So... my memory has gotten a LOT worse in the last few years. I've started making more spelling mistakes, and just thinking less clearly in general. There is alzheimers disease in my ancestry as well, and I'm worried I'm on track for dementia, even just as a 30-something. It happens to correlate pretty well to the time since I stopped using Listerine regularly, FWIW. I see things about fighting alzheimers with vigorous exercise, consumption of mushrooms, etc. From this I would think that using Listerine would be beneficial for eliminating a potential source of P. gingivalis infection. Anybody else facing this predicament? What is your approach?
- coldtea 8y ago
  Shouldn't you get an examination and doctor advice (or at least look for an approach based on the results) as opposed to random old wives tales from us HN users?
  - wolco 8y ago
    Why wouldn't you try using listerine? By all means talk to your doctor about fog/memory issues but reducing oral bacteria isn't an old wives tale and is standard dentist advice either through brushing / listerine or other methods.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      You're focusing on the wrong thing. The parent believes they might have Alzheimer. Without getting diagnosed, and without starting treatment if indeed have it, mere questions about using Listerine should be at the very bottom of their list, as should be HN advice.
- ozzyman700 8y ago
  Why not try using listerine again? you could do some spelling tests to try and benchmark yourself.
  - Udik 8y ago
kbaker 8y ago
This may also help explain why neurosurgeons who operate on Alzheimer's patients are more likely to develop Alzheimer's themselves: https://alzgerm.org/news/reports-indicate-brain-surgeons-risk-transmitted-alzheimers-disease/ https://alzgerm.org/news/reports-indicate-brain-surgeons-ris... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170305 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170305
johnnycab 8y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18987015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18987015
RockyHill 8y ago
God bless Doctor Arthur moon for helping me cure my herpes disease. Brethren, i have suffered herpes for a long period of time, i have tried so many remedy, but known seems to work. But i had contact with a herbal doctor who i saw so many people testifying on how they were all cured of their various disease and viruses by this doctor. So i explained my entire problem to him, and he promised to cure me. So i gave him all benefit of doubt, and behold he prepared the herbal mixture, and send it to me in my country. Today, i am proud to say i am herpes free, and my life has been restored to normal. So in case you are out there suffering from herpes and other diseases or virus, i want to tell you to quickly contact: Arthur moon for your cure. His email is arthurmoon01@gmail.com

176 points by Ankaios 8y ago

Here’s some related material: "It turns out that [amyloid-beta proteins] form [plaques] because they're trying to help us. They're trying to fight an infection," said Robert Moir, an assistant professor of neurobiology at Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts General Hospital. "The Alzheimer's disease dementia that comes after years of this battle, are something like collateral damage from their actions. But it's not that it's intrinsically bad what they're doing. It's just that if you keep doing it for long enough the amyloid that is generated in this battle starts to become a problem in itself." If this theory, which Moir outlines in a review article published in the December issue of the journal Alzheimer's & Dementia, proves true, it could mean researchers' current strategies to combat the disease — fighting the plaques — is misguided. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/dec-8-2018-why-are-users-taking-fentanyl-making-stuff-with-moon-dust-an-app-to-detect-anemia-and-more-1.4935099/have-researchers-been-wrong-about-alzheimer-s-a-new-theory-challenges-the-old-story-1.4935121 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/dec-8-2018-why-are-users-tak... The antimicrobial protection hypothesis of Alzheimer's disease: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155252601833228X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155252601...

hprotagonist 8y ago
given the catastrophic failure of every single plaque therapy ever tried over the last 30 years, i’m going with “certainly misguided”.
ncmncm 8y ago
All the other Alzheimer's researchers are not infectious-disease specialists, and have no reasonable prospect of becoming infectious-disease specialists. The overwhelming majority of Alzheimer's disease research funding still goes to them. They get veto power over most potential grants to infectious-disease groups, and publication by them in most journals. Probably the single most effective way to enable progress on Alzheimer's research would be to discover something else they could all work on, and stop blocking infectious disease specialists' work.
theprotocol 8y ago
Amyloid plaque accretion reminds me of cholesterol accretion, and there is a recent school of thought whereby: - Heart disease is actually caused by metabolic syndrome (read: same cause as diabetes) - Alzheimers is analogous to diabetes (some are calling it Type 3) I'm not convinced of the above, but it's interesting.
- jayalpha 8y ago
  I found both theories promising. Your post reminded me of this pub: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709085/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709085/
  - theprotocol 8y ago
    I find the more studies I read, the higher the stakes seem, because the theories I've read are highly contradictory yet their proponents seem very polarized and very sure of themselves. Some theories that have been prematurely accepted by some groups are going to be very, very wrong. The easiest example of this sort of highly polarized dynamic is in the realm of diets.
doctorpangloss 8y ago
The emphasis on the plaques comes from the fact that Alzheimer’s is diagnosed by the presence of these plaques, while dementia is a symptom/presentation. I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. It probably doesn’t, not for any good biological reason, but because it doesn’t sound like any progress has been made on the biomechanics of dementia. Laypeople obviously don’t care about the plaques. They want the dementia to go away. You can make a mouse model that has a brain infection, and then potentially a model where that infection shows plaques, and then a molecule that gets rid of the infection. But it’s really hard to tell (in real life, not in science speak) if a mouse has dementia. That’s the limitation. We’re so incredibly far away from drug interventions for dementia.
- viscanti 8y ago
  > I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. What they're saying is that after many years of fighting the infection Alzheimer's starts to develop. Certainly people who are older have the potential to have more years of infection. This seems plausible.
- ImaCake 8y ago
  There is a clinical trial associated with the anti-gingipain treatment described in OPs study that is going into phase 2 this month. If the authors are correct, people are going to be getting this treatment for alzheimers this year.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >I guess it comes down to whether you believe that an infection disproportionately affects old people and causes dementia. It probably doesn’t, not for any good biological reason How about older people not having the health required to fight the infection?
shawnz 8y ago
> If this theory, which Moir outlines in a review article published in the December issue of the journal Alzheimer's & Dementia, proves true, it could mean researchers' current strategies to combat the disease — fighting the plaques — is misguided. But it could still mean that preventing the plaque formation would stop the dementia, right?
- LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
  No, if the plaques are symptoms of a disease, supressing them equals supressing infection symptoms (fever)- you basically feel better but actually prolong the disease and accelerate it somewhat.
  - ASpring 8y ago
    But that's worth exploring, right? I'm sure many people would prefer a lucid but shorter life than a longer one that is highly impacted by dementia symptoms
    - arcticbull 8y ago
      I think the idea is that the plaques are symptoms and that we should invest in the root cause. Like developing antibiotics instead of fever reducers. They both have a role, and I know where I'd allocate my resources.
    - dsego 8y ago
      Afaik, the drugs that reduce plaques have failed to actually alleviate symptoms of the disease.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >you basically feel better but actually prolong the disease and accelerate it somewhat. That might be totally fine if the effects of the disease the plaques fight are not as bad as the disease they cause -- e.g. the "prolonged" disease is not as bad as Alzheimer.

hirundo 8y ago

Ergo, floss.

ncmncm 8y ago

Money quote: "The Kgp inhibitor COR271, which has oral bioavailability and significant CNS penetration, administered orally twice a day significantly reduced bacterial load in the brain compared to the positive control infection arm and in comparison to baseline levels at 5 weeks."

masonic 8y ago
Any idea of cost for future therapeutic doses?

ncmncm 8y ago

Since 1999 there have been reports of Herpes-family viral infections associated with Alzheimer's, with publication only recently enabled. What is up with that work?

jayalpha 8y ago
Not sure I understand your question. 1. New results? Check Medline! 2. What the problem is? I vaguely remember that this might have been on hackernews recently: https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29/alzheimers-research-outsider-bucked-prevailing-theory/ https://www.statnews.com/2018/10/29/alzheimers-research-outs...

eternauta3k 8y ago

Sounds like what Dale Bredesen is saying. https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen https://www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/dale-bredesen

wrycoder 8y ago

From the Discussion section of TFA: “In addition, there is one other species of Porphyromonas that is known to produce gingipains, Porphyromonas gulae (61). P. gulae is a natural inhabitant of the oral cavity of companion animals such as dogs, and a recent study demonstrated that dogs can transmit P. gulae to the oral cavity of their owners (62). Research is underway to determine whether P. gulae may be contributing to the gingipain load in AD brains.”

reasonattlm 8y ago

And yet the risk increase for dementia for people with periodontitis is not large at 6% in a recent sizable study. https://www.healthinaging.org/blog/periodontitis-may-raise-the-risk-for-developing-dementia/ https://www.healthinaging.org/blog/periodontitis-may-raise-t...

dlrush 8y ago
Good data point. However, this suggests that the barriers between oral infection -> vascular infection -> brain infection are somewhat effective.

graeme 8y ago

>Transient bacteremia of P. gingivalis can occur during common activities such as brushing, flossing, and chewing, as well as during dental procedures (19), resulting in documented translocation to a variety of tissues including coronary arteries (20), placenta (21), and liver (22). A recent study found that 100% of patients with cardiovascular disease had P. gingivalis arterial colonization That’s extremely interesting. 100% of patients with heart disease. I’ve heard flossing may help prevent alzheimers, due to fighting gum disease. This article talks about translocation. Once bacteria has made it into the body, is it too late for gums to have any effect? Or is it more like a total bacterial load: if the gums are continuing to infect the body, the other parts of the body must fight harder to keep the invading bacteria at bay? Edit: of course, we should know how many patients of a similar age without heart disease had p. Gingivalis in their arteries

pygy_ 8y ago
> [...] is it too late for gums to have any effect? Or is it more like a total bacterial load [...] Probably the latter (from the article): """ A prospective observational study of [Alzheimer Disease (AD)] patients with active [Chronic Periodontis (CP)] reported a notable decline in cognition (Alzheimer’s Disease Assessment Scale—Cognitive and Mini Mental State Examination scales) over a 6-month period compared to AD patients without active CP """
beenBoutIT 8y ago
The outcome of this study is effectively meaningless because we don't know how common p. Gingivalis is in the general population's arteries.
- graeme 8y ago
  I looked elsewhere in the paper and they said: >P. gingivalis is mainly found during gingival and periodontal infections; however, it can also be found at low levels in 25% of healthy individuals with no oral disease (18).
coldtea 8y ago
>I’ve heard flossing may help prevent alzheimers, due to fighting gum disease. I've heard flossing is only peddled by floss companies, with no real studies to recommend it. Not sure the jury is out: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-36962667 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-36962667

snarfy 8y ago

I recall reading Slackware's Patrick Volkerding's health problems were traced back to his sonic toothbrush. [1] tl;dr The sonic toothbrush was aerosolizing the bacteria in his mouth which was inhaled while brushing his teeth. [1] - https://science.slashdot.org/story/04/11/16/1846207/patrick-volkerding-battles-mystery-illness https://science.slashdot.org/story/04/11/16/1846207/patrick-...

jwilk 8y ago
Archived copy of the original article: https://web.archive.org/web/20041118015127if_/http://slackware.osuosl.org:80/slackware-current/PAT-NEEDS-YOUR-HELP.txt https://web.archive.org/web/20041118015127if_/http://slackwa...

wazoox 8y ago

How does this compound with the Taiwanese study on relation between herpes viruses and Alzheimer?

starchild_3001 8y ago

For an overarching theory, see the book: Microbial Burden: A Major Cause Of Aging And Age-Related Disease by by Michael Lustgarten. Also related: What if we found out that blood microbiome is the most significant marker of heart disease? E.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328378/

pc2g4d 8y ago

So... my memory has gotten a LOT worse in the last few years. I've started making more spelling mistakes, and just thinking less clearly in general. There is alzheimers disease in my ancestry as well, and I'm worried I'm on track for dementia, even just as a 30-something. It happens to correlate pretty well to the time since I stopped using Listerine regularly, FWIW. I see things about fighting alzheimers with vigorous exercise, consumption of mushrooms, etc. From this I would think that using Listerine would be beneficial for eliminating a potential source of P. gingivalis infection. Anybody else facing this predicament? What is your approach?

coldtea 8y ago
Shouldn't you get an examination and doctor advice (or at least look for an approach based on the results) as opposed to random old wives tales from us HN users?
- wolco 8y ago
  Why wouldn't you try using listerine? By all means talk to your doctor about fog/memory issues but reducing oral bacteria isn't an old wives tale and is standard dentist advice either through brushing / listerine or other methods.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    You're focusing on the wrong thing. The parent believes they might have Alzheimer. Without getting diagnosed, and without starting treatment if indeed have it, mere questions about using Listerine should be at the very bottom of their list, as should be HN advice.
ozzyman700 8y ago
Why not try using listerine again? you could do some spelling tests to try and benchmark yourself.
- Udik 8y ago

kbaker 8y ago

This may also help explain why neurosurgeons who operate on Alzheimer's patients are more likely to develop Alzheimer's themselves: https://alzgerm.org/news/reports-indicate-brain-surgeons-risk-transmitted-alzheimers-disease/ https://alzgerm.org/news/reports-indicate-brain-surgeons-ris... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170305 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170305

johnnycab 8y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18987015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18987015

RockyHill 8y ago

God bless Doctor Arthur moon for helping me cure my herpes disease. Brethren, i have suffered herpes for a long period of time, i have tried so many remedy, but known seems to work. But i had contact with a herbal doctor who i saw so many people testifying on how they were all cured of their various disease and viruses by this doctor. So i explained my entire problem to him, and he promised to cure me. So i gave him all benefit of doubt, and behold he prepared the herbal mixture, and send it to me in my country. Today, i am proud to say i am herpes free, and my life has been restored to normal. So in case you are out there suffering from herpes and other diseases or virus, i want to tell you to quickly contact: Arthur moon for your cure. His email is arthurmoon01@gmail.com