3 ms·

I think you have cause and effect backwards. Car culture stems from poor planning, from the car being needed to survive. Add in options for not needing a car an

by mabbo 8y ago

I think you have cause and effect backwards. Car culture stems from poor planning, from the car being needed to survive. Add in options for not needing a car and the culture will change.

toyg 8y ago
The religious element is somewhat real, due to the Birmingham area being the center of UK car manufacturing for decades. Detroit could be a decent comparison: area built by the motor industry for the motor industry, attracted the poorest and most ethnically diverse elements of society in large numbers, then declined pretty rapidly once car plants closed. Public transport might help, but alone it’s unlikely it will shift much.
- sanxiyn 8y ago
  On the other hand, Toyota City has a good public transportation.
- mabbo 8y ago
  That's a fair point. I hadn't realized Birmingham had that history to it.
- dijit 8y ago
  But the motor industry was not in Birmingham, the motor industry was centralised almost entirely in nearby Coventry. And the collapse of the motor industry has almost completely decimated the city. You can make the argument that Coventrians moved to Brum following the blitz but it's rather revisionist to compare Birmingham to Detroit when the reality is that Coventry is the closest corollary.
  - toyg 8y ago
    True, I tend to include Coventry in "the Birmingham area". Birmingham's decline was the result of manufacturing collapse in general, not just the automotive sector. But the city was definitely altered pretty dramatically to suit cars.
- Theodores 8y ago
  There is a very different story of immigration to the UK. I assure you that (almost) everyone who arrived from afar to end up in Brum worked their asses off and the second generation born here are true Brits with the family values, respecting the religious heritage and the work ethic. Some might not want to work dawn to 11 in the family business but there is plenty of entrepreneurial spirit. Those with fancy cars who happen not to be white in Brum and the car culture that goes with it is something I really like even though I think cars are 'evil'. I don't believe there is a lot of 'Great' in Britain, but what there is has certainly been in part due to the efforts of people working in vibrant Birmingham. More canals than Venice. Before I went there the snob friends of mine in London and the shires told me it was a concrete jungle and I would be better just going to prison or walking off a cliff. But it has to be one of the friendliest and most welcoming places in the UK. The people there take an effort with their appearance which makes Londoners look like tramps in comparison. I found tree lined avenues aplenty. I have never been to Detroit and am not in a hurry to do so. I am not entirely sure I would survive that long even if I was looking for the good in everyone. Brum may have some concrete and dispiriting housing (lived in some for a while) but there aren't vast tracts of wasteland with feral dogs and everyone having access to a gun. Sure the big car plants of the West Midlands are no more, to be replaced with things like shopping centres, however, there are pockets such as the Jewellery Quarter where you have high tech next to low tech, cutting edge next to century old. Also different is how the suburbs developed. It was the car that caused Detroit to donut out into suburbs for the centre ring to become no longer needed. I understand Washington DC has sort of done that too. Birmingham certainly does not have a ring of wasteland around the citadel city centre. Just a few 60's tower blocks to be wary of if it is late at night and you aren't familiar with the area.

by mabbo 8y ago

I think you have cause and effect backwards. Car culture stems from poor planning, from the car being needed to survive. Add in options for not needing a car and the culture will change.

toyg 8y ago

The religious element is somewhat real, due to the Birmingham area being the center of UK car manufacturing for decades. Detroit could be a decent comparison: area built by the motor industry for the motor industry, attracted the poorest and most ethnically diverse elements of society in large numbers, then declined pretty rapidly once car plants closed. Public transport might help, but alone it’s unlikely it will shift much.

sanxiyn 8y ago
On the other hand, Toyota City has a good public transportation.
mabbo 8y ago
That's a fair point. I hadn't realized Birmingham had that history to it.
dijit 8y ago
But the motor industry was not in Birmingham, the motor industry was centralised almost entirely in nearby Coventry. And the collapse of the motor industry has almost completely decimated the city. You can make the argument that Coventrians moved to Brum following the blitz but it's rather revisionist to compare Birmingham to Detroit when the reality is that Coventry is the closest corollary.
- toyg 8y ago
  True, I tend to include Coventry in "the Birmingham area". Birmingham's decline was the result of manufacturing collapse in general, not just the automotive sector. But the city was definitely altered pretty dramatically to suit cars.
Theodores 8y ago
There is a very different story of immigration to the UK. I assure you that (almost) everyone who arrived from afar to end up in Brum worked their asses off and the second generation born here are true Brits with the family values, respecting the religious heritage and the work ethic. Some might not want to work dawn to 11 in the family business but there is plenty of entrepreneurial spirit. Those with fancy cars who happen not to be white in Brum and the car culture that goes with it is something I really like even though I think cars are 'evil'. I don't believe there is a lot of 'Great' in Britain, but what there is has certainly been in part due to the efforts of people working in vibrant Birmingham. More canals than Venice. Before I went there the snob friends of mine in London and the shires told me it was a concrete jungle and I would be better just going to prison or walking off a cliff. But it has to be one of the friendliest and most welcoming places in the UK. The people there take an effort with their appearance which makes Londoners look like tramps in comparison. I found tree lined avenues aplenty. I have never been to Detroit and am not in a hurry to do so. I am not entirely sure I would survive that long even if I was looking for the good in everyone. Brum may have some concrete and dispiriting housing (lived in some for a while) but there aren't vast tracts of wasteland with feral dogs and everyone having access to a gun. Sure the big car plants of the West Midlands are no more, to be replaced with things like shopping centres, however, there are pockets such as the Jewellery Quarter where you have high tech next to low tech, cutting edge next to century old. Also different is how the suburbs developed. It was the car that caused Detroit to donut out into suburbs for the centre ring to become no longer needed. I understand Washington DC has sort of done that too. Birmingham certainly does not have a ring of wasteland around the citadel city centre. Just a few 60's tower blocks to be wary of if it is late at night and you aren't familiar with the area.