4 ms·

Birmingham is a motor city. You don't get a bus, you drive. It is as simple as that. The infrastructure was built for cars and the leafy suburbs have plenty of

Birmingham is a motor city. You don't get a bus, you drive. It is as simple as that. The infrastructure was built for cars and the leafy suburbs have plenty of parking. People drive in and don't get the bus. I use the term 'people' to refer to people with proper jobs, if you work in the NHS as a nurse or if you do cleaning, work in a shop or anything else serving customers then you are waiting an extremely long time for a bus and having quite a walk at the other end. Things may have changed recently but from what I remember you had absolutely silly waiting times after 6.30 p.m. Stay at your desk one minute past 5.30 and you have that thirty minutes of walking and waiting before your bus comes along if you are lucky. There are other factors such as the cost of living in the city. Although not London prices, if you want to 'get on the housing rope-ladder' then you are going to be off the bus route and driving in. People do like their cars in Birmingham, for religious reasons a lot of young men don't drink. This leads to a lot of them taking a lot of pride in their motors to therefore never take the bus. There is a large pedestrianised area in the centre however there are also roads that are as big as motorways going through the city. Things like the exhibition centres and other things alluding to Birmingham's status as second city were very much built with the car in mind. I cycled when I lived there and my experiences of the bus was gained after I got run over by a car from the other carriageway collecting me on his bonnet. The bike didn't take it too well so the bleak misery of the bus was not my choice. The waiting was definitely bad for productivity. There was one other cyclist at that workplace of sixty or so other people and only the receptionist got the bus, starting at 6.30 a.m. from Lichfield to be there before 9. Everyone else drove. I did have reason to drive there once, it was on work business and I made the mistake of taking the wrong exit from 5-ways roundabout. A mile later stuck in the slowest traffic ever in Halesowen I was ready to abandon the car and set light to it. Luckily it wasn't my car so I spent the best part of an hour trying to get back to the right exit of the roundabout. That was not 'productive'.

mabbo 8y ago
I think you have cause and effect backwards. Car culture stems from poor planning, from the car being needed to survive. Add in options for not needing a car and the culture will change.
- toyg 8y ago
  The religious element is somewhat real, due to the Birmingham area being the center of UK car manufacturing for decades. Detroit could be a decent comparison: area built by the motor industry for the motor industry, attracted the poorest and most ethnically diverse elements of society in large numbers, then declined pretty rapidly once car plants closed. Public transport might help, but alone it’s unlikely it will shift much.
  - sanxiyn 8y ago
    On the other hand, Toyota City has a good public transportation.
  - mabbo 8y ago
    That's a fair point. I hadn't realized Birmingham had that history to it.
  - dijit 8y ago
    But the motor industry was not in Birmingham, the motor industry was centralised almost entirely in nearby Coventry. And the collapse of the motor industry has almost completely decimated the city. You can make the argument that Coventrians moved to Brum following the blitz but it's rather revisionist to compare Birmingham to Detroit when the reality is that Coventry is the closest corollary.
    - toyg 8y ago
      True, I tend to include Coventry in "the Birmingham area". Birmingham's decline was the result of manufacturing collapse in general, not just the automotive sector. But the city was definitely altered pretty dramatically to suit cars.
  - Theodores 8y ago
    There is a very different story of immigration to the UK. I assure you that (almost) everyone who arrived from afar to end up in Brum worked their asses off and the second generation born here are true Brits with the family values, respecting the religious heritage and the work ethic. Some might not want to work dawn to 11 in the family business but there is plenty of entrepreneurial spirit. Those with fancy cars who happen not to be white in Brum and the car culture that goes with it is something I really like even though I think cars are 'evil'. I don't believe there is a lot of 'Great' in Britain, but what there is has certainly been in part due to the efforts of people working in vibrant Birmingham. More canals than Venice. Before I went there the snob friends of mine in London and the shires told me it was a concrete jungle and I would be better just going to prison or walking off a cliff. But it has to be one of the friendliest and most welcoming places in the UK. The people there take an effort with their appearance which makes Londoners look like tramps in comparison. I found tree lined avenues aplenty. I have never been to Detroit and am not in a hurry to do so. I am not entirely sure I would survive that long even if I was looking for the good in everyone. Brum may have some concrete and dispiriting housing (lived in some for a while) but there aren't vast tracts of wasteland with feral dogs and everyone having access to a gun. Sure the big car plants of the West Midlands are no more, to be replaced with things like shopping centres, however, there are pockets such as the Jewellery Quarter where you have high tech next to low tech, cutting edge next to century old. Also different is how the suburbs developed. It was the car that caused Detroit to donut out into suburbs for the centre ring to become no longer needed. I understand Washington DC has sort of done that too. Birmingham certainly does not have a ring of wasteland around the citadel city centre. Just a few 60's tower blocks to be wary of if it is late at night and you aren't familiar with the area.
jimnotgym 8y ago
> Birmingham is a motor city. You don't get a bus, I work in Birmingham at the moment, and have previously, and commute 40 odd miles in each day. There is a mainline train from near my house to the centre of Birmingham which takes around 1 hour. I took it when I worked in the centre. Now I work right on the edge of Birmingham, just off the motorway that surrounds it. I can drive there in about 1hr 20min (depending on the appalling traffic and constant roadworks, it should be a 45min trip). From the motorway I have to drive round 5 miles of lethal back roads to get to my office which is less than a half-mile as-the-crow flies from the motorway junction. Even thought it is on an industrial estate the roads suck! I would love to get the train, but I would be left with a hour or so of extra journey time on those disgusting busses, so doubling my commute time. Birmingham had a motorway infrastructure that was amazing for 1955. Now it is a car park at peak times. > People do like their cars in Birmingham, for religious reasons a lot of young men don't drink. This leads to a lot of them taking a lot of pride in their motors to therefore never take the bus. I note in some areas there are signs saying that cruising around is banned by order of the high court! > things like the exhibition centres and other things alluding to Birmingham's status as second city were very much built with the car in mind. The exhibition centre has a railway line and an airport too. The connection to Birmingham center (New Street, now 'Grand Central') is excellent. But then it is like a spoke and hub distribution model...but with only 2 spokes. If you are not on a rail route you are stuffed, because of those busses! When our staff are doing stuff at the NEC (National Exhibition Centre) they stop in the hotel there, despite our offices being only 12 miles away as-the-crow-flies! > there was one other cyclist at that workplace of sixty I agree, cycling in Brum is horrible. The lanes are too narrow. I feel that the report writers are on to something, I sit in the M6 motorway traffic each day and see the miles of people wasting their time with me. This must be a fabulous productivity hit to the region.
collyw 8y ago
I am interested in your definition of "proper" jobs after you exclude NHS nurses, cleaners and shop workers. You sound like a snob from that statement. Perhaps "well paid jobs" would have been a better way of phrasing it?
- esotericn 8y ago
  I mean, he did define it. A job that supports the worker in taking an efficient, stress free form of transport in to work is a "proper" job. A job that pays so little that they'll skimp on their commute every single day is not a "proper" job. I know people in London who take multiple buses in to work in the morning rather than using the tube. It takes them significantly longer. It's cheaper. They do it because they don't have "proper" jobs; their employers don't care about them.
- Theodores 8y ago
  I self identify with the cleaning staff, the night security guard and the others that are undervalued in the workplace. I also grew up working in retail and did factory jobs. As for nurses, I met the one that saved my life in the supermarket recently and I certainly expressed my gratitude, much to her surprise! I assure you that I am fully tongue in cheek when it comes to 'proper' jobs. I do a little bit of coding and not telling other people what to do. For me coding is one of the few truly creative disciplines open to me but it is actual work. I don't object to anyone being well paid if they work for it. Maybe 'rentier class' should have been my turn of phrase, but I am British and my humour would be fully understood in Brum if not in Alabama. I keep forgetting American language is so different. We use 'bin' to mean a 'wastepaper basket'. We don't need the extra explaining words that bloat out the lingo but we do have things like 'u' in colour. The full sketch on this private joke us Brits have on American use of the language is worth a watch just for next time English is over literal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0

mabbo 8y ago

I think you have cause and effect backwards. Car culture stems from poor planning, from the car being needed to survive. Add in options for not needing a car and the culture will change.

toyg 8y ago
The religious element is somewhat real, due to the Birmingham area being the center of UK car manufacturing for decades. Detroit could be a decent comparison: area built by the motor industry for the motor industry, attracted the poorest and most ethnically diverse elements of society in large numbers, then declined pretty rapidly once car plants closed. Public transport might help, but alone it’s unlikely it will shift much.
- sanxiyn 8y ago
  On the other hand, Toyota City has a good public transportation.
- mabbo 8y ago
  That's a fair point. I hadn't realized Birmingham had that history to it.
- dijit 8y ago
  But the motor industry was not in Birmingham, the motor industry was centralised almost entirely in nearby Coventry. And the collapse of the motor industry has almost completely decimated the city. You can make the argument that Coventrians moved to Brum following the blitz but it's rather revisionist to compare Birmingham to Detroit when the reality is that Coventry is the closest corollary.
  - toyg 8y ago
    True, I tend to include Coventry in "the Birmingham area". Birmingham's decline was the result of manufacturing collapse in general, not just the automotive sector. But the city was definitely altered pretty dramatically to suit cars.
- Theodores 8y ago
  There is a very different story of immigration to the UK. I assure you that (almost) everyone who arrived from afar to end up in Brum worked their asses off and the second generation born here are true Brits with the family values, respecting the religious heritage and the work ethic. Some might not want to work dawn to 11 in the family business but there is plenty of entrepreneurial spirit. Those with fancy cars who happen not to be white in Brum and the car culture that goes with it is something I really like even though I think cars are 'evil'. I don't believe there is a lot of 'Great' in Britain, but what there is has certainly been in part due to the efforts of people working in vibrant Birmingham. More canals than Venice. Before I went there the snob friends of mine in London and the shires told me it was a concrete jungle and I would be better just going to prison or walking off a cliff. But it has to be one of the friendliest and most welcoming places in the UK. The people there take an effort with their appearance which makes Londoners look like tramps in comparison. I found tree lined avenues aplenty. I have never been to Detroit and am not in a hurry to do so. I am not entirely sure I would survive that long even if I was looking for the good in everyone. Brum may have some concrete and dispiriting housing (lived in some for a while) but there aren't vast tracts of wasteland with feral dogs and everyone having access to a gun. Sure the big car plants of the West Midlands are no more, to be replaced with things like shopping centres, however, there are pockets such as the Jewellery Quarter where you have high tech next to low tech, cutting edge next to century old. Also different is how the suburbs developed. It was the car that caused Detroit to donut out into suburbs for the centre ring to become no longer needed. I understand Washington DC has sort of done that too. Birmingham certainly does not have a ring of wasteland around the citadel city centre. Just a few 60's tower blocks to be wary of if it is late at night and you aren't familiar with the area.

jimnotgym 8y ago

> Birmingham is a motor city. You don't get a bus, I work in Birmingham at the moment, and have previously, and commute 40 odd miles in each day. There is a mainline train from near my house to the centre of Birmingham which takes around 1 hour. I took it when I worked in the centre. Now I work right on the edge of Birmingham, just off the motorway that surrounds it. I can drive there in about 1hr 20min (depending on the appalling traffic and constant roadworks, it should be a 45min trip). From the motorway I have to drive round 5 miles of lethal back roads to get to my office which is less than a half-mile as-the-crow flies from the motorway junction. Even thought it is on an industrial estate the roads suck! I would love to get the train, but I would be left with a hour or so of extra journey time on those disgusting busses, so doubling my commute time. Birmingham had a motorway infrastructure that was amazing for 1955. Now it is a car park at peak times. > People do like their cars in Birmingham, for religious reasons a lot of young men don't drink. This leads to a lot of them taking a lot of pride in their motors to therefore never take the bus. I note in some areas there are signs saying that cruising around is banned by order of the high court! > things like the exhibition centres and other things alluding to Birmingham's status as second city were very much built with the car in mind. The exhibition centre has a railway line and an airport too. The connection to Birmingham center (New Street, now 'Grand Central') is excellent. But then it is like a spoke and hub distribution model...but with only 2 spokes. If you are not on a rail route you are stuffed, because of those busses! When our staff are doing stuff at the NEC (National Exhibition Centre) they stop in the hotel there, despite our offices being only 12 miles away as-the-crow-flies! > there was one other cyclist at that workplace of sixty I agree, cycling in Brum is horrible. The lanes are too narrow. I feel that the report writers are on to something, I sit in the M6 motorway traffic each day and see the miles of people wasting their time with me. This must be a fabulous productivity hit to the region.

collyw 8y ago

I am interested in your definition of "proper" jobs after you exclude NHS nurses, cleaners and shop workers. You sound like a snob from that statement. Perhaps "well paid jobs" would have been a better way of phrasing it?

esotericn 8y ago
I mean, he did define it. A job that supports the worker in taking an efficient, stress free form of transport in to work is a "proper" job. A job that pays so little that they'll skimp on their commute every single day is not a "proper" job. I know people in London who take multiple buses in to work in the morning rather than using the tube. It takes them significantly longer. It's cheaper. They do it because they don't have "proper" jobs; their employers don't care about them.
Theodores 8y ago
I self identify with the cleaning staff, the night security guard and the others that are undervalued in the workplace. I also grew up working in retail and did factory jobs. As for nurses, I met the one that saved my life in the supermarket recently and I certainly expressed my gratitude, much to her surprise! I assure you that I am fully tongue in cheek when it comes to 'proper' jobs. I do a little bit of coding and not telling other people what to do. For me coding is one of the few truly creative disciplines open to me but it is actual work. I don't object to anyone being well paid if they work for it. Maybe 'rentier class' should have been my turn of phrase, but I am British and my humour would be fully understood in Brum if not in Alabama. I keep forgetting American language is so different. We use 'bin' to mean a 'wastepaper basket'. We don't need the extra explaining words that bloat out the lingo but we do have things like 'u' in colour. The full sketch on this private joke us Brits have on American use of the language is worth a watch just for next time English is over literal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0