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What people failed to define themselves is "Simplicity". That concept "Simplicity" needs context. Is it API surface simple ? Is it data model simple ? Is it

What people failed to define themselves is "Simplicity". That concept "Simplicity" needs context. Is it API surface simple ? Is it data model simple ? Is it Lines of Code short ? Is it extensible with small core and huge plugins system ? ... Is Wordpress simple ? Is MERN simple ? Is Rails simple ? There's no answer here. That's it. There's no "absolute simplicity", it depends on context.

Razengan 8y ago
For that matter, what about the definition of "perfect"?
lucio 8y ago
How many new concepts a new user needs to learn, and how many mental models a new user must develop in order to effectively use your software. Twitter is simple, Git is complex.
- cheez 8y ago
  Git is pretty simple. https://github.com/git/git/blob/ecbdaf0899161c067986e9d9d564586d4b045d62/ll-merge.c https://github.com/git/git/blob/ecbdaf0899161c067986e9d9d564...
  - dreamcompiler 8y ago
    Git is one of those rare products whose internal implementation is simple but whose user interface is a complicated mess.
  - dsjoerg 8y ago
    http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/04/git-koans/ http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/04/git-koans/
- rileymat2 8y ago
  I think this is close to a pretty good definition, but it should be restricted to people who already have learned the mental models of the domain. In that the mental models learned to use the software should match those of the domain.
- anbop 8y ago
  Twitter is simple only at the UI level. It’s still very easy to make a seemingly simple move on Twitter which results in ending your career, signing up for a life of harassment, etc. In a way, Twitter hides too much of the complexity of the world.
  - woah 8y ago
    What’s an example of this?
    - anbop 8y ago
      Jon Ronson’s book “So you’ve been Internet shamed.”
specialist 8y ago
Having done a bit of tech writing, "how hard is it to explain" is my proxy for simplicity / complexity. I've read everything I can about measuring complexity. I'm just not smart enough to understand most of it. So "simple" is still like pornography for me: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.
mamcx 8y ago
But is a huge trap to get stuck on try to first define words, like "Simplicity" as if the fact some concepts are hard to define in highly PRECISE terms are a real impediment or block Simplicity, like love, justice, elegance, etc are hard to define, but EASY to see. How you know something is "complex"? When is not simple. When you know something is "complicated?", when is not simple, and not even complex. The fact some concepts are hard to articulate is not a big problem most of time. What is needed, is to ASK IT. Ask yourself "is this simple?" "no, we think is complicated". Pump! that's all. You don't need to get lost on definitions to know. You only need to ask. ---- P.D I don't argue against the importance of definitions... and sometimes people are sooooo lost or the project is sooooo messy that actually is necessary to make a mental check to make clear to everybody or ourselves, like @revskill say, to be more precise in what we are talking about. But most of time, is a problem of FAULTY COMMUNICATION not on words!

Razengan 8y ago

For that matter, what about the definition of "perfect"?

lucio 8y ago

How many new concepts a new user needs to learn, and how many mental models a new user must develop in order to effectively use your software. Twitter is simple, Git is complex.

cheez 8y ago
Git is pretty simple. https://github.com/git/git/blob/ecbdaf0899161c067986e9d9d564586d4b045d62/ll-merge.c https://github.com/git/git/blob/ecbdaf0899161c067986e9d9d564...
- dreamcompiler 8y ago
  Git is one of those rare products whose internal implementation is simple but whose user interface is a complicated mess.
- dsjoerg 8y ago
  http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/04/git-koans/ http://stevelosh.com/blog/2013/04/git-koans/
rileymat2 8y ago
I think this is close to a pretty good definition, but it should be restricted to people who already have learned the mental models of the domain. In that the mental models learned to use the software should match those of the domain.
anbop 8y ago
Twitter is simple only at the UI level. It’s still very easy to make a seemingly simple move on Twitter which results in ending your career, signing up for a life of harassment, etc. In a way, Twitter hides too much of the complexity of the world.
- woah 8y ago
  What’s an example of this?
  - anbop 8y ago
    Jon Ronson’s book “So you’ve been Internet shamed.”

specialist 8y ago

Having done a bit of tech writing, "how hard is it to explain" is my proxy for simplicity / complexity. I've read everything I can about measuring complexity. I'm just not smart enough to understand most of it. So "simple" is still like pornography for me: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

mamcx 8y ago

But is a huge trap to get stuck on try to first define words, like "Simplicity" as if the fact some concepts are hard to define in highly PRECISE terms are a real impediment or block Simplicity, like love, justice, elegance, etc are hard to define, but EASY to see. How you know something is "complex"? When is not simple. When you know something is "complicated?", when is not simple, and not even complex. The fact some concepts are hard to articulate is not a big problem most of time. What is needed, is to ASK IT. Ask yourself "is this simple?" "no, we think is complicated". Pump! that's all. You don't need to get lost on definitions to know. You only need to ask. ---- P.D I don't argue against the importance of definitions... and sometimes people are sooooo lost or the project is sooooo messy that actually is necessary to make a mental check to make clear to everybody or ourselves, like @revskill say, to be more precise in what we are talking about. But most of time, is a problem of FAULTY COMMUNICATION not on words!