3 ms·

If you take climate change stuff seriously, then the answers are these: >How many? As many as you can build. You run out of engineers and carpenters before y

by vlehto 7y ago

If you take climate change stuff seriously, then the answers are these: >How many? As many as you can build. You run out of engineers and carpenters before you make too many reactors in time. >What timeframe? Now. >Costs? Doesn't matter that much. Easily cheaper than climate change. >Who builds them? Whoever can. >Which models? Hardly matters, any model is safer than burning coal. >Where do we build them? Doesn't matter. Any location is safer than burning coal. >What effects does it have when? Hope that we might have climate change to stop below 3 degrees.

lispm 7y ago
Just like I thought. You have no idea how to do it, what it is going to cost and what impact it will have. This will convince nobody.
- vlehto 7y ago
  Are you doubting nuclear or are you doubting climate change?
  - jason0597 7y ago
    I'm a bit on the pro-nuclear side, but if you met a banker and asked him for a couple of billion upfront to build a nuclear plant, and said those things, he'd reject you outright.
    - vlehto 7y ago
      Of course. I'm not arguing to get funding here. I'm arguing that if you believe the IPCC storyline about climate change, then nuclear is the only viable option. Building should have started yesterday and the voting public of democratic nations should be fully aware of this. If you don't believe the IPCC storyline, nuclear is still best power source right now. But there is no hurry. We can safely dabble with renewables and batteries and such until oil, gas and coal run out. No political hard decisions are needed, because prices of fossil fuels will increase well in advance to any catastrophe. So it will become economically sound to produce energy in some other way. Maybe it won't be nuclear then, I don't really care.
iforgotpassword 7y ago
Again just random stuff you pulled out of your ass.
- vlehto 7y ago
  If we talk about future, everything is random stuff pulled from someones ass. Future cannot be researched, calculated or predicted. You can just be worried about stuff and bet on some solutions to give your children a decent place to live in.
  - lispm 7y ago
    > Future cannot be researched, calculated or predicted Sure it can. Otherwise you wouldn't know about the effects of climate change. > You can just be worried about stuff and bet on some solutions to give your children a decent place to live in. Use a bicycle. Don't fly. Don't make vacation on a cruise ship. Don't buy flown in goods. Don't eat meat. Don't reproduce. Recycle stuff. Get solar onto your roof. Heat with electricity from non-fossil fuels. Don't use a car.
    - vlehto 7y ago
      >Otherwise you wouldn't know about the effects of climate change. Well actually we don't know. We have maybe a sophisticated guess at best. Knowledge requires data, that by definition cannot be gathered from future. At least not before someone invents a time machine. Even the best forecasts we can make about anything are very poor. Look at a simple things like construction budgets or projected congestion of particular traffic system upgrade. They are usually off by magnitude of order. And this is well documented by Kahnemann. In regards of atmosphere, it might be that IPCC has overestimated the whole thing with a fat margin. Or it might be we are all dead no matter what we do. >Don't reproduce. If I don't do that, then I'm not going to give a shit about this phenomena anyhow. >Heat with electricity from non-fossil fuels. Where I'm from, that's impossible without the whole state going non-fossil fuel. Which again is practically impossible without nuclear. Heating accounts probably about half of my carbon footprint. And with rough winters that's a lot. I've already minimized everything else.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mch82 7y ago
Two important questions to ask are: - Will you volunteer to live by the nuclear plant or waste storage facilities? - Will you work at or advise your friends & family to work there?

by vlehto 7y ago

lispm 7y ago

Just like I thought. You have no idea how to do it, what it is going to cost and what impact it will have. This will convince nobody.

vlehto 7y ago
Are you doubting nuclear or are you doubting climate change?
- jason0597 7y ago
  I'm a bit on the pro-nuclear side, but if you met a banker and asked him for a couple of billion upfront to build a nuclear plant, and said those things, he'd reject you outright.
  - vlehto 7y ago
    Of course. I'm not arguing to get funding here. I'm arguing that if you believe the IPCC storyline about climate change, then nuclear is the only viable option. Building should have started yesterday and the voting public of democratic nations should be fully aware of this. If you don't believe the IPCC storyline, nuclear is still best power source right now. But there is no hurry. We can safely dabble with renewables and batteries and such until oil, gas and coal run out. No political hard decisions are needed, because prices of fossil fuels will increase well in advance to any catastrophe. So it will become economically sound to produce energy in some other way. Maybe it won't be nuclear then, I don't really care.

iforgotpassword 7y ago

Again just random stuff you pulled out of your ass.

vlehto 7y ago
If we talk about future, everything is random stuff pulled from someones ass. Future cannot be researched, calculated or predicted. You can just be worried about stuff and bet on some solutions to give your children a decent place to live in.
- lispm 7y ago
  > Future cannot be researched, calculated or predicted Sure it can. Otherwise you wouldn't know about the effects of climate change. > You can just be worried about stuff and bet on some solutions to give your children a decent place to live in. Use a bicycle. Don't fly. Don't make vacation on a cruise ship. Don't buy flown in goods. Don't eat meat. Don't reproduce. Recycle stuff. Get solar onto your roof. Heat with electricity from non-fossil fuels. Don't use a car.
  - vlehto 7y ago
    >Otherwise you wouldn't know about the effects of climate change. Well actually we don't know. We have maybe a sophisticated guess at best. Knowledge requires data, that by definition cannot be gathered from future. At least not before someone invents a time machine. Even the best forecasts we can make about anything are very poor. Look at a simple things like construction budgets or projected congestion of particular traffic system upgrade. They are usually off by magnitude of order. And this is well documented by Kahnemann. In regards of atmosphere, it might be that IPCC has overestimated the whole thing with a fat margin. Or it might be we are all dead no matter what we do. >Don't reproduce. If I don't do that, then I'm not going to give a shit about this phenomena anyhow. >Heat with electricity from non-fossil fuels. Where I'm from, that's impossible without the whole state going non-fossil fuel. Which again is practically impossible without nuclear. Heating accounts probably about half of my carbon footprint. And with rough winters that's a lot. I've already minimized everything else.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

mch82 7y ago

Two important questions to ask are: - Will you volunteer to live by the nuclear plant or waste storage facilities? - Will you work at or advise your friends & family to work there?