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> It just loses out because it’s too expensive and worse, it gets more expensive with time. "The estimated cost of the remaining border wall segments are betwe

> It just loses out because it’s too expensive and worse, it gets more expensive with time. "The estimated cost of the remaining border wall segments are between $15 and $25 billion, with each mile of fencing costing $16 million." [1] "The total investment for the stellarator itself over 1997–2014 amounted to €370 million, while the total cost for the IPP site in Greifswald including investment plus operating costs (personnel and material resources) amounted to [$1.2 billion USD] for that 18-year period." [2] It's more a matter of funding than cost, IMO. [1]: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/cost-of-border-wall https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/cost-of-... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X#Financing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendelstein_7-X#Financing

pfdietz 8y ago
Stellarators (and fusion in general) will be notable for being an energy source that makes even nuclear fission look cheap.
lispm 8y ago
Wendelstein is an experiment, many decades away from a practical application. The ITER is expected to cost >20bn €
- pfdietz 8y ago
  If ITER were augmented with a blanket and turbine to turn its gross fusion output into electrical power at 40% efficiency, the cost would be just ~$100/W(e), or two orders of magnitude higher than PV. Even adjusting for capacity factor (stipulating the fusion reactor at 100%), it would be ludicrously uncompetitive. Part of the reason for this is just how massive ITER is. The power density of the reactor is 0.05 MW/m^3, some 400 times lower than the power density of the reactor vessel of a commercial PWR.
  - lispm 8y ago
    It's a really complex machine and it hasn't been designed to produce any electricity yet. So it's a fusion experiment and not a power plant. The hope is that this device leads to another one which might be able to sustain operation and produce electricity. But how much will that cost? Will one be able to mass produce such a machine at competitive costs? Will we see larger and smaller designs?

pfdietz 8y ago

Stellarators (and fusion in general) will be notable for being an energy source that makes even nuclear fission look cheap.

lispm 8y ago

Wendelstein is an experiment, many decades away from a practical application. The ITER is expected to cost >20bn €

pfdietz 8y ago
If ITER were augmented with a blanket and turbine to turn its gross fusion output into electrical power at 40% efficiency, the cost would be just ~$100/W(e), or two orders of magnitude higher than PV. Even adjusting for capacity factor (stipulating the fusion reactor at 100%), it would be ludicrously uncompetitive. Part of the reason for this is just how massive ITER is. The power density of the reactor is 0.05 MW/m^3, some 400 times lower than the power density of the reactor vessel of a commercial PWR.
- lispm 8y ago
  It's a really complex machine and it hasn't been designed to produce any electricity yet. So it's a fusion experiment and not a power plant. The hope is that this device leads to another one which might be able to sustain operation and produce electricity. But how much will that cost? Will one be able to mass produce such a machine at competitive costs? Will we see larger and smaller designs?