3 ms·

I still don't understand how MS managed to mess up Windows Phone. My girlfriend had one for a while and it was excellent.

city41 8y ago
Windows Phone 7 didn’t come out until late 2010. Then WP8 required new hardware. By the time they could have built any kind of momentum Apple and Google were eons ahead of them. iPhone 4 was released before WP7. It’s a shame, my WP8 phone is still my favorite smart phone ever.
Someone1234 8y ago
Google's monopolistic abuse is a very under-reported part of this story. No Google app suite, which Google is absolutely allowed not to make. So Microsoft made the apps for free for Google, google said no, then Microsoft released their own brand clients (e.g. Microsoft YouTube client, Maps, etc) and Google shut it down with lawyers. Can any platform survive without Google ecosystem support? If Windows Phone was the case study then likely not.
- asveikau 8y ago
  I commented something like this last time I saw this sentiment on HN. You forget, or I forgive you if you never knew, that google made really good apps on the old Windows Mobile. Google Maps was especially good on WinCE. Then Microsoft declared all Win32 apps dead in favor of a very half baked Silverlight runtime that didn't have such luxury features as sockets or scrolling that actually works. So if I were calling the shots on Google's end at that time, no way I am going to advocate for a massive rewrite onto a runtime that doesn't work well for a very small number of users. Microsoft's own boneheaded actions killed Google's goodwill for its mobile platform.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    You likely have commented that multiple times, since it seems like a copy/paste to a completely different discussion. It isn't relevant here. Microsoft made the apps for Google, then when that failed released them themselves with no expectation of Google taking over/paying for support. So your point isn't at all relevant to what happened in the Windows Phone situation. As I said right at the start of my post: Google is fully entitled to refuse to produce apps for Windows Phone. That isn't the problem here, Google effectively blocked their API on that specific platform and their strong market position strangled the platform to death.
    - asveikau 8y ago
      You missed that they had Google apps, then MS threw out the platform and replaced it with something non-competitive and very confused about what an app was or could be. The apps that MS made for third parties were rush jobs and poorly maintained over time, and because the Silverlight runtime was not up to the job, performed poorly. They did not well represent their respective brands. They were nowhere near the quality of Google Maps for WinCE circa 2009, to say nothing of how they stood against their contemporary equivalents on iOS and Android. Would you really want a bad app, that cannot do what your real offerings do, out there representing you, with your name and logo?
      - Someone1234 8y ago
        > The apps that MS made for third parties were rush jobs and poorly maintained over time The Google apps Microsoft produced worked extremely well right up until the day they got pulled due to legal threats. I'm not sure what this is a reference to. > because the Silverlight runtime was not up to the job, performed poorly. XNA ("Silverlight") was only one of the platforms Windows Phone supported. It also had support for Windows Phone App Studio and the Windows Runtime. The Windows Runtime never had poor performing characteristics and was the most popular platform after WP8's release. > Would you really want a bad app, that cannot do what your real offerings do, out there representing you, with your name and logo? No, but since that wasn't the reality I don't see the relevance of the question. It is largely a strawman situation where the apps were bad (they weren't), had bad performance (they didn't), and were developed using "Silverlight" (they weren't). You say you post this information a lot on this site. It is unfortunately you didn't research before the first time you posted it.
turtlebits 8y ago
No official apps, and the store was full of crapware. Microsoft should have curated their app store it until it got some traction.
jccalhoun 8y ago
there were a lot of problems. One that hasn't been mentioned is that MS's idea of Windows Phone was that all the apps would match the OS's design. A lot of big companies did not want to do that.
- ygra 8y ago
  As a user I have to say I did want that. Windows Phone peaked with WP8 though, IMHO. W10M has always been weirdly buggy, inconsistent and not performing as well. I guess the two API and forced hardware changes did most to cement its demise.
jhasse 8y ago
One simple reason: No support for OpenGL ES.
Nextgrid 8y ago
They reset the ecosystem multiple times and required developers to rebuild/rewrite their apps each time. Not a smart move when you don’t have many apps to begin with. Store curation was also an issue with tons of garbage in there that shouldn’t have been allowed.

city41 8y ago

Windows Phone 7 didn’t come out until late 2010. Then WP8 required new hardware. By the time they could have built any kind of momentum Apple and Google were eons ahead of them. iPhone 4 was released before WP7. It’s a shame, my WP8 phone is still my favorite smart phone ever.

Someone1234 8y ago

Google's monopolistic abuse is a very under-reported part of this story. No Google app suite, which Google is absolutely allowed not to make. So Microsoft made the apps for free for Google, google said no, then Microsoft released their own brand clients (e.g. Microsoft YouTube client, Maps, etc) and Google shut it down with lawyers. Can any platform survive without Google ecosystem support? If Windows Phone was the case study then likely not.

asveikau 8y ago
I commented something like this last time I saw this sentiment on HN. You forget, or I forgive you if you never knew, that google made really good apps on the old Windows Mobile. Google Maps was especially good on WinCE. Then Microsoft declared all Win32 apps dead in favor of a very half baked Silverlight runtime that didn't have such luxury features as sockets or scrolling that actually works. So if I were calling the shots on Google's end at that time, no way I am going to advocate for a massive rewrite onto a runtime that doesn't work well for a very small number of users. Microsoft's own boneheaded actions killed Google's goodwill for its mobile platform.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  You likely have commented that multiple times, since it seems like a copy/paste to a completely different discussion. It isn't relevant here. Microsoft made the apps for Google, then when that failed released them themselves with no expectation of Google taking over/paying for support. So your point isn't at all relevant to what happened in the Windows Phone situation. As I said right at the start of my post: Google is fully entitled to refuse to produce apps for Windows Phone. That isn't the problem here, Google effectively blocked their API on that specific platform and their strong market position strangled the platform to death.
  - asveikau 8y ago
    You missed that they had Google apps, then MS threw out the platform and replaced it with something non-competitive and very confused about what an app was or could be. The apps that MS made for third parties were rush jobs and poorly maintained over time, and because the Silverlight runtime was not up to the job, performed poorly. They did not well represent their respective brands. They were nowhere near the quality of Google Maps for WinCE circa 2009, to say nothing of how they stood against their contemporary equivalents on iOS and Android. Would you really want a bad app, that cannot do what your real offerings do, out there representing you, with your name and logo?
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      > The apps that MS made for third parties were rush jobs and poorly maintained over time The Google apps Microsoft produced worked extremely well right up until the day they got pulled due to legal threats. I'm not sure what this is a reference to. > because the Silverlight runtime was not up to the job, performed poorly. XNA ("Silverlight") was only one of the platforms Windows Phone supported. It also had support for Windows Phone App Studio and the Windows Runtime. The Windows Runtime never had poor performing characteristics and was the most popular platform after WP8's release. > Would you really want a bad app, that cannot do what your real offerings do, out there representing you, with your name and logo? No, but since that wasn't the reality I don't see the relevance of the question. It is largely a strawman situation where the apps were bad (they weren't), had bad performance (they didn't), and were developed using "Silverlight" (they weren't). You say you post this information a lot on this site. It is unfortunately you didn't research before the first time you posted it.

turtlebits 8y ago

No official apps, and the store was full of crapware. Microsoft should have curated their app store it until it got some traction.

jccalhoun 8y ago

there were a lot of problems. One that hasn't been mentioned is that MS's idea of Windows Phone was that all the apps would match the OS's design. A lot of big companies did not want to do that.

ygra 8y ago
As a user I have to say I did want that. Windows Phone peaked with WP8 though, IMHO. W10M has always been weirdly buggy, inconsistent and not performing as well. I guess the two API and forced hardware changes did most to cement its demise.

jhasse 8y ago

One simple reason: No support for OpenGL ES.

Nextgrid 8y ago

They reset the ecosystem multiple times and required developers to rebuild/rewrite their apps each time. Not a smart move when you don’t have many apps to begin with. Store curation was also an issue with tons of garbage in there that shouldn’t have been allowed.