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Not to be the negative-Nancy in the room but there's a massive gap between prototype and commercially viable at a chemical level and then another between chemic

Not to be the negative-Nancy in the room but there's a massive gap between prototype and commercially viable at a chemical level and then another between chemically stable and commercially producible. I wish them the best, but there a probably at least a dozen similar companies with roughly similar claims with different underlying chemistries (flow batteries, etc.) and many more that haven't panned out for one reason or another. People are most definitely trying to replace Li-ion but its not an easy thing to do in practice, even if simple enough on paper.

wesammikhail 8y ago
I dont find your comment to be negative at all. You´re raising a valid point. All I am doing is drawing attention to the fact that people are trying. And if just one of all the experiments out there succeeds is a net benefit to us all. IF people can deliver on the other hand is a different thing. Only time will tell but I remain hopeful!
- xbmcuser 8y ago
  The thing is any new battery tech will have to be as good or better when introduced to stand a chance and lithium ion is not a standing target it also keeps improving. So someone working on new battery tech would need to target being at least 2-3 times as cheap and easier to produce 5 years from now if you look at the lithium ion cost trajectory.
- j45 8y ago
  Not speaking about the above poster, but sometimes trying gets talked down by talkers. I hope there can be other ways to be pragmatic and supportive. It's easy to be logical.
j45 8y ago
My comment is in general towards these types of 'I don't mean to be negative but let me be not positive comments'. Is HN the place to encourage doubt worship, or is it a place to encourage curiosity and put in effort? When wishing someone the best to operationalize and commercialize, why not say just, that instead of packaging it in a backhanded well wish? There's no doubt this iz a hard problem to get in market. Innovation and breakthroughs like LiON also happened in a mindset of imagination, exploring possibilities, being a little posiviely reasonable and stubborn. A doubt based mindset isn't as open to possibilities or innovating as a curious mindset that undertakes action and puts in effort. This is the first time I've heard of this company and I hope the battery issue leaps soon and hope they continue their efforts, unconditionally. Maybe they could go after safe incremental improvements with a shorter shelf life. There's a reason creators are following your own compass and not others.
- j45 8y ago
  Is today's HN becoming less about dialog, only doubters downvoting on their way by?
  - robdachshund 8y ago
    HN seems to just be a bunch of armchair intellectuals arguing over semantics. Usually the top comment is just someone angry about something barely related to the article, as seen here. I never thought I'd say this but even reddit seems to have more substantial conversations. At the very least half the comments aren't dead for some inexplicable reason. There is also a very clear liberal and pro gov/pro corp bias here. I've seen many posters skewered alive for suggesting that the big tech companies deliver data to the NSA, etc. I highly doubt this comment will be allowed to live.
wongarsu 8y ago
On paper replacing Li-Ion is trivial: it's designed for small scale low weight applications at room temperature with limited lifetime and highish safety requirements (consumer electronics). Remove any of those requirements and some other technology is theoretically superior. In practise the amout of research poured into improving Li-Ion and the economies of scale achieved in production along the entire supply chain make it very hard to compete.

wesammikhail 8y ago

I dont find your comment to be negative at all. You´re raising a valid point. All I am doing is drawing attention to the fact that people are trying. And if just one of all the experiments out there succeeds is a net benefit to us all. IF people can deliver on the other hand is a different thing. Only time will tell but I remain hopeful!

xbmcuser 8y ago
The thing is any new battery tech will have to be as good or better when introduced to stand a chance and lithium ion is not a standing target it also keeps improving. So someone working on new battery tech would need to target being at least 2-3 times as cheap and easier to produce 5 years from now if you look at the lithium ion cost trajectory.
j45 8y ago
Not speaking about the above poster, but sometimes trying gets talked down by talkers. I hope there can be other ways to be pragmatic and supportive. It's easy to be logical.

j45 8y ago

My comment is in general towards these types of 'I don't mean to be negative but let me be not positive comments'. Is HN the place to encourage doubt worship, or is it a place to encourage curiosity and put in effort? When wishing someone the best to operationalize and commercialize, why not say just, that instead of packaging it in a backhanded well wish? There's no doubt this iz a hard problem to get in market. Innovation and breakthroughs like LiON also happened in a mindset of imagination, exploring possibilities, being a little posiviely reasonable and stubborn. A doubt based mindset isn't as open to possibilities or innovating as a curious mindset that undertakes action and puts in effort. This is the first time I've heard of this company and I hope the battery issue leaps soon and hope they continue their efforts, unconditionally. Maybe they could go after safe incremental improvements with a shorter shelf life. There's a reason creators are following your own compass and not others.

j45 8y ago
Is today's HN becoming less about dialog, only doubters downvoting on their way by?
- robdachshund 8y ago
  HN seems to just be a bunch of armchair intellectuals arguing over semantics. Usually the top comment is just someone angry about something barely related to the article, as seen here. I never thought I'd say this but even reddit seems to have more substantial conversations. At the very least half the comments aren't dead for some inexplicable reason. There is also a very clear liberal and pro gov/pro corp bias here. I've seen many posters skewered alive for suggesting that the big tech companies deliver data to the NSA, etc. I highly doubt this comment will be allowed to live.

wongarsu 8y ago

On paper replacing Li-Ion is trivial: it's designed for small scale low weight applications at room temperature with limited lifetime and highish safety requirements (consumer electronics). Remove any of those requirements and some other technology is theoretically superior. In practise the amout of research poured into improving Li-Ion and the economies of scale achieved in production along the entire supply chain make it very hard to compete.