5 ms·

It's "reduce, reuse, recycle" in that order. The most sustainable product is a product built to last.

by ozaark 8y ago

moron4hire 8y ago
Yeah, I have found my cardboard Amazon boxes to be much more useful as mulch than putting them in the recycle bin, not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure my municipality just dumps it all anyway.
- benj111 8y ago
  Are you contending that this is reduce or reuse? It doesn't appear that you're reducing your use of boxes, and you aren't reusing the box as a box. Recycling it as cardboard would seem to be better than using it as mulch, but using it as mulch would seem to be better than putting it in landfill.
  - keerthiko 8y ago
    reuse doesn't have to be as the exact same thing. depending on how usable the product is for its original purpose as well, reuse <-> recycle is a spectrum -- if you tear up the box and then use it for something else like mulch, it's closer to recycle, but if you refashion the box to make a rabbit trap without destroying the box, it's not really being used as a box anymore but I'd say it's reuse because you are using it, and it could return to its original use as well.
    - benj111 8y ago
      Agreed, reuse doesn't have to be for the same thing, but to me it isn't a destructive process. Using cardboard for mulch is a destructive process. The cardboard will last a season if that. It seems to me you're recycling the nutrients and biological matter back into the soil. This is a 'lower level' recycling than recycling the cardboard back to cardboard, and so less preferable.
      - hinkley 8y ago
        Cardboard mulch can be thought of as generative instead of destructive. You are recycling it into soil in the lead into gold sense of “into” rather than the trash into bag sense. Cardboard is excellent substraight for saprophytic mushrooms, which are dominant in certain desirable types of forest soil. It’s a common trick in permaculture circles for simulating second growth forest succession without having to wait forty years (takes about six to twelve month).
    - moron4hire 8y ago
      There is only just so many times you can reuse a cardboard box, and there are only just so many boxes you need in your life. I receive more boxes than I need boxes, but the cardboard is still useful. By using cardboard as mulch, I'm also not buying wood mulch. Some people do use wood mulch on top of their cardboard to give it a better look, but I just use grass clippings and raked leaves, which people typically also discard. So things that would end up being useless to me instead go back into my own yard. Now, I suppose one could argue that the grass clippings could be used in a bioreactor to create methane fuel, but that's just more carbon in the air, when really we should be trapping it in soil and plants. It's also a hell of a lot easier than bagging all that shit and hauling to the street.
      - hedora 8y ago
        The embodied energy (~= the energy used to produce) of the cardboard is much higher than that of mulch. I’m not sure if the incremental energy to turn the cardboard into new cardboard (and transport it twice) is more or less than that of growing, mulching and transporting some scrap wood. Anyway, that is probably the right computation to run.
        moron4hire 8y ago
        The equation is not "spend energy on wood mulch VS spend energy on cardboard", it's "spend energy on wood mulch AND cardboard VS spend energy on cardboard". The cardboard is a given. We purchase things and they come in boxes. By using it as mulch, I then avoid the additional spend in energy, time, dollars, and effort on wood mulch.
        benj111 8y ago
        Mulch isn't typically paper grade wood though. It's either bark, or all the small branchy bits chopped up. So wood for paper and wood for mulch shouldn't be substitutable. Where it does get marginal is with all the extra transportation and packaging. "I then avoid the additional spend in energy, time, dollars, and effort on wood mulch. " Agreed, that's as good a reason as any. Plus if we get to the point where our biggest problem is recycling or mulching cardboard I'll be happy.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  Cardboard boxes and any paper product for that matter already contain a lot of recycled paper, and if you live in a country that collects paper separately you shouldn't worry too much about it being dumped. Used paper and cardboard is worth money to collect and sell separately. https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2018/08/14/the-latest-pricing-for-baled-paper-and-plastics/ https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2018/08/14/the-late... mentions some prices.
dwighttk 8y ago
the most sustainable product is the one never built.
- coldtea 8y ago
  That's already covered by the "reduce" part.

It's "reduce, reuse, recycle" in that order. The most sustainable product is a product built to last.

by ozaark 8y ago

It's "reduce, reuse, recycle" in that order. The most sustainable product is a product built to last.

Yeah, I have found my cardboard Amazon boxes to be much more useful as mulch than putting them in the recycle bin, not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure my municipality just dumps it all anyway.

benj111 8y ago
Are you contending that this is reduce or reuse? It doesn't appear that you're reducing your use of boxes, and you aren't reusing the box as a box. Recycling it as cardboard would seem to be better than using it as mulch, but using it as mulch would seem to be better than putting it in landfill.
- keerthiko 8y ago
  reuse doesn't have to be as the exact same thing. depending on how usable the product is for its original purpose as well, reuse <-> recycle is a spectrum -- if you tear up the box and then use it for something else like mulch, it's closer to recycle, but if you refashion the box to make a rabbit trap without destroying the box, it's not really being used as a box anymore but I'd say it's reuse because you are using it, and it could return to its original use as well.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Agreed, reuse doesn't have to be for the same thing, but to me it isn't a destructive process. Using cardboard for mulch is a destructive process. The cardboard will last a season if that. It seems to me you're recycling the nutrients and biological matter back into the soil. This is a 'lower level' recycling than recycling the cardboard back to cardboard, and so less preferable.
    - hinkley 8y ago
      Cardboard mulch can be thought of as generative instead of destructive. You are recycling it into soil in the lead into gold sense of “into” rather than the trash into bag sense. Cardboard is excellent substraight for saprophytic mushrooms, which are dominant in certain desirable types of forest soil. It’s a common trick in permaculture circles for simulating second growth forest succession without having to wait forty years (takes about six to twelve month).
  - moron4hire 8y ago
    There is only just so many times you can reuse a cardboard box, and there are only just so many boxes you need in your life. I receive more boxes than I need boxes, but the cardboard is still useful. By using cardboard as mulch, I'm also not buying wood mulch. Some people do use wood mulch on top of their cardboard to give it a better look, but I just use grass clippings and raked leaves, which people typically also discard. So things that would end up being useless to me instead go back into my own yard. Now, I suppose one could argue that the grass clippings could be used in a bioreactor to create methane fuel, but that's just more carbon in the air, when really we should be trapping it in soil and plants. It's also a hell of a lot easier than bagging all that shit and hauling to the street.
    - hedora 8y ago
      The embodied energy (~= the energy used to produce) of the cardboard is much higher than that of mulch. I’m not sure if the incremental energy to turn the cardboard into new cardboard (and transport it twice) is more or less than that of growing, mulching and transporting some scrap wood. Anyway, that is probably the right computation to run.
      - moron4hire 8y ago
        The equation is not "spend energy on wood mulch VS spend energy on cardboard", it's "spend energy on wood mulch AND cardboard VS spend energy on cardboard". The cardboard is a given. We purchase things and they come in boxes. By using it as mulch, I then avoid the additional spend in energy, time, dollars, and effort on wood mulch.
        benj111 8y ago
        Mulch isn't typically paper grade wood though. It's either bark, or all the small branchy bits chopped up. So wood for paper and wood for mulch shouldn't be substitutable. Where it does get marginal is with all the extra transportation and packaging. "I then avoid the additional spend in energy, time, dollars, and effort on wood mulch. " Agreed, that's as good a reason as any. Plus if we get to the point where our biggest problem is recycling or mulching cardboard I'll be happy.
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Cardboard boxes and any paper product for that matter already contain a lot of recycled paper, and if you live in a country that collects paper separately you shouldn't worry too much about it being dumped. Used paper and cardboard is worth money to collect and sell separately. https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2018/08/14/the-latest-pricing-for-baled-paper-and-plastics/ https://resource-recycling.com/recycling/2018/08/14/the-late... mentions some prices.

dwighttk 8y ago

the most sustainable product is the one never built.

coldtea 8y ago
That's already covered by the "reduce" part.