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I've started to wonder if designing things to last is truly the best option. Sometimes well built things out live their usefulness and then you have this well b

I've started to wonder if designing things to last is truly the best option. Sometimes well built things out live their usefulness and then you have this well built paper weight. Braun razors are a good example. I have one that still works, but I stopped using it after several years. No one wants a used razor, so what happens to it? I think we need to stop trying to make things a permanent as we can and start thinking more about sustainability.

blt 8y ago
It's kind of funny in the reddit "Buy it for life" community where people are talking about, like, socks... the thing you grind your whole body weight onto 5,000 times per day. I'm not going to start buying expensive uncomfortably thick socks just so I can be happy about how long they last.
- kylehotchkiss 8y ago
  Buy Darn Tough socks! If they get holes, you mail them back to Vermont and they mail you back new socks.
  - doubleunplussed 8y ago
    You're kind of buying a sock subscription at that point.
  - hinkley 8y ago
    What’s the carbon footprint of sending them back and forth? My heavy socks last forever because I only wear them when I put on my boots, which is maybe twenty days a year. Eventually the moths will get them.
  - eaandkw 8y ago
    I second Darn Tough socks. I retired from the USMC and I will pay what ever they are asking for the socks. It really does make a difference on a 15 to 20 mile hike. Ever since I was issued my first pair I never went back and they are worth every bit of the $25 dollars per pair. I never got blisters since wearing them.
    - kylehotchkiss 8y ago
      Thank you for your service! really cool they issued darn tough socks. Have you tried danner boots by any chance? good pairing :)
- kevstev 8y ago
  Why would you assume that thick socks are uncomfortable? I find it quite the opposite- I wear almost entirely hiking socks these days, and find the thick wool to be like walking on puppies.
ozaark 8y ago
It's "reduce, reuse, recycle" in that order. The most sustainable product is a product built to last.
- moron4hire 8y ago
  Yeah, I have found my cardboard Amazon boxes to be much more useful as mulch than putting them in the recycle bin, not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure my municipality just dumps it all anyway.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Are you contending that this is reduce or reuse? It doesn't appear that you're reducing your use of boxes, and you aren't reusing the box as a box. Recycling it as cardboard would seem to be better than using it as mulch, but using it as mulch would seem to be better than putting it in landfill.
    - keerthiko 8y ago
      reuse doesn't have to be as the exact same thing. depending on how usable the product is for its original purpose as well, reuse <-> recycle is a spectrum -- if you tear up the box and then use it for something else like mulch, it's closer to recycle, but if you refashion the box to make a rabbit trap without destroying the box, it's not really being used as a box anymore but I'd say it's reuse because you are using it, and it could return to its original use as well.
      - benj111 8y ago
        Agreed, reuse doesn't have to be for the same thing, but to me it isn't a destructive process. Using cardboard for mulch is a destructive process. The cardboard will last a season if that. It seems to me you're recycling the nutrients and biological matter back into the soil. This is a 'lower level' recycling than recycling the cardboard back to cardboard, and so less preferable.
ajmurmann 8y ago
I recently heard the word "upcycling". It's very self-explanatory and clearly is what we need to do consistently.
lttlrck 8y ago
Isn’t the point how long you used the shaver? And how many lesser shavers would you have needed in that period that would also have ended up on the shelf?
devoply 8y ago
You don't give any particularly good reasons for why you feel a certain way. You have a very specific product, a personal hygiene product so obviously if you no longer want to use it that's your prerogative but that does not negate the value of having something that lasts a long time.
hutzlibu 8y ago
"No one wants a used razor" I believe there are actually quite some people who would take it. But along with sex toys, yes usually a razor is something not for reuse. But actually I cannot think of much more conventionel products who outlive their usefulnes. Except allmost everything with a computer today.. will it connect to other services in 5 years, when the ones from today die out?
- dkarl 8y ago
  There's a difference between sex toys and razors, which is the nature of the contamination. People know how to clean their sex toys, which as a bonus are designed to be very easy to clean completely. (And when you do it the right way, it's feels obvious that you haven't missed anything. You don't have any lingering doubt.) With somebody else's sex toys, we have a feeling of contamination, but it's not physical, hygienic contamination. It's palpable, but intangible. Razors are much more physically complicated, and many people never disassemble and clean their razor in its whole lifetime. They might know how to open it and shake out the hair that's inside it, but very few people bother to figure out how to clean every nook and cranny and wash out the oils that can accumulate in dark corners. With razors, I think people would be happy to buy a used razor if they knew how to clean it. But they don't, so someone else's razor will always feel dirty to them, in the hygienic sense. Even if people did know how to clean a razor thoroughly, or had confidence that they could learn, they still might rather buy a new one for twice the price rather than put in the effort, but that's a judgement that can be influenced by the ethic of sustainability, if it was standard for manufacturers to design razors that could be cleaned with high confidence and a minimum of skill.
  - Invictus0 8y ago
    > They might know how to open it and shake out the hair that's inside it, but very few people bother to figure out how to clean every nook and cranny and wash out the oils that can accumulate in dark corners. Have you seen a Braun razor? There are no corners. The product is as ergonomic as can be and since it's entirely waterproof, I don't know how you can say that "hidden oils" accumulate anywhere. The company even sells a station that cleans it for you. You've unwittingly fallen victim to the same effect you just mentioned: a feeling of contamination that is not actually there. Ultimately, there is little reason for companies to design repairable products when most consumers disdain repair and even used items. I know many people that turn up their nose at buying used items such as cameras or headphones. "Certified pre-owned" is the magic dust that car dealerships need to sprinkle on their cars to make a used car seem new again, along with some vague incantations about inspections. Amazon even sells "expert assembly" packages for products as simple as a bookcase [0]! [0] https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-DrawBridge-Storage-Organization-Cabinet/dp/B0058O8F7I https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-DrawBridge-Storage-Organizat...
einr 8y ago
No one wants a used razor This attitude is part of the problem. Maybe you're right -- although there are 450 listings for used men's Braun electric razors on eBay right now so it's a bit stark to claim that "no one wants a used razor" -- but being squeamish about stuff like this is a silly attitude that we should change. "Eww skin cells and hair" is not a valid excuse to throw away functioning things. We have running water, dishwashers and disinfectants. I don't mean this as an attack on you, but on this prevalent attitude in society that makes you feel like your used razor is worthless.
- hatsix 8y ago
  Any buyers are in for a surprise, Braun changes their blade designs every few years and after 3 or 4 years, a replacement foil will cost more than a new razor. I have an alert for whenever Amazon's algo goes wacky and the price drops, but it's only happened twice in three years.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  Medical professionals say that a used razor can transmit infections and recommend even monogamous couples don’t share them. They wouldn’t re-use a razor more than they’d re-use a needle. You need to apply a little common sense beyond saying re-use everything.
  - dathinab 8y ago
    Many electric razors (at last in Germany) consists of a head (which is a bit plastic and the blades) and separate handle (which has the electric parts). So reusing the handles is just fine as they don't get into contact with any cut (through desinfect them anyway). For classical razors you could have a culture of getting a high quality one when you start needing it and then keep it for a lifetime if possible (through you have to sharpen it from time to time).
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - 8y ago
wumms 8y ago
Just keep the old one in the attic. Old Braun vs new razor is like nice laser printer vs. ink jet. I bought a cheap Li-Rechargeable (Philips OneBlade). They charge you half the price of the whole razor for a single blade (15€) which sometimes breaks just when you fumble the long hair trimmer off of it.
thaumaturgy 8y ago
Drop it off at a local Goodwill or similar.
coldtea 8y ago
>I have one that still works, but I stopped using it after several years. No one wants a used razor, so what happens to it? If it was really built to last (and not just some plasticky thing that happens to still work), then someone would very much want it. What's the problem with a "used razor"? People buy all kinds of used things... More so, if it was built to last, any part that could be problematic (e.g. the blade being damaged by the use of the original owner), would be easily replaced, and the rest would be as good as new.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
There's certainly a market for the old 'safety' razors as well as straight razors. The 'safety' razors of course require blades, but they still generate less waste than modern cartridge razors. Straight razors require maintenance (keep them dry; strop; sharpen very occasionally), but generate even less waste, and last well (I have one from the late 1700s).
- potta_coffee 8y ago
  I bought a pack of blades 5 years ago that I'm still working through. There are no plastic bits to throw away, which is a positive IMO.
- anticensor 8y ago
  A cartridge razor is a safety razor.
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    I'm referring to non-cartridge 'safety' razors though. I don't know a good way of referring to this class. Many of these are DE (double-edge), but there are some SE (single-edge) types as well. Razors which are not straight razors or cartridge razors.
- random878 8y ago
  I switched to a safety razor about 10 to 15 years ago. In that time I've bought two of them (one broke). All I need to buy are the safety razors which are cheaper and use less packaging. It's a win-win. Those fancy cartridge razors from the likes of Gilette are scam!
kpU8efre7r 8y ago
Not everything needs to last but I mostly agree. Some items simply can't last a lifetime like shoe soles. You can buy a shoe that can be re-soled but even that will eventually wear down. Tech products that outlast their usefulness or any product for that matter, should be made from more sustainable materials. Whenever I throw something out I get the mental image of that item sitting in a landfill for eternity and it upsets me. Moreso if it's mostly plastic and contains electronics. This disposable mentality is not sustainable.

blt 8y ago

It's kind of funny in the reddit "Buy it for life" community where people are talking about, like, socks... the thing you grind your whole body weight onto 5,000 times per day. I'm not going to start buying expensive uncomfortably thick socks just so I can be happy about how long they last.

kylehotchkiss 8y ago
Buy Darn Tough socks! If they get holes, you mail them back to Vermont and they mail you back new socks.
- doubleunplussed 8y ago
  You're kind of buying a sock subscription at that point.
- hinkley 8y ago
  What’s the carbon footprint of sending them back and forth? My heavy socks last forever because I only wear them when I put on my boots, which is maybe twenty days a year. Eventually the moths will get them.
- eaandkw 8y ago
  I second Darn Tough socks. I retired from the USMC and I will pay what ever they are asking for the socks. It really does make a difference on a 15 to 20 mile hike. Ever since I was issued my first pair I never went back and they are worth every bit of the $25 dollars per pair. I never got blisters since wearing them.
  - kylehotchkiss 8y ago
    Thank you for your service! really cool they issued darn tough socks. Have you tried danner boots by any chance? good pairing :)
kevstev 8y ago
Why would you assume that thick socks are uncomfortable? I find it quite the opposite- I wear almost entirely hiking socks these days, and find the thick wool to be like walking on puppies.

ozaark 8y ago

It's "reduce, reuse, recycle" in that order. The most sustainable product is a product built to last.

moron4hire 8y ago
Yeah, I have found my cardboard Amazon boxes to be much more useful as mulch than putting them in the recycle bin, not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure my municipality just dumps it all anyway.
- benj111 8y ago
  Are you contending that this is reduce or reuse? It doesn't appear that you're reducing your use of boxes, and you aren't reusing the box as a box. Recycling it as cardboard would seem to be better than using it as mulch, but using it as mulch would seem to be better than putting it in landfill.
  - keerthiko 8y ago
    reuse doesn't have to be as the exact same thing. depending on how usable the product is for its original purpose as well, reuse <-> recycle is a spectrum -- if you tear up the box and then use it for something else like mulch, it's closer to recycle, but if you refashion the box to make a rabbit trap without destroying the box, it's not really being used as a box anymore but I'd say it's reuse because you are using it, and it could return to its original use as well.
    - benj111 8y ago
      Agreed, reuse doesn't have to be for the same thing, but to me it isn't a destructive process. Using cardboard for mulch is a destructive process. The cardboard will last a season if that. It seems to me you're recycling the nutrients and biological matter back into the soil. This is a 'lower level' recycling than recycling the cardboard back to cardboard, and so less preferable.

ajmurmann 8y ago

I recently heard the word "upcycling". It's very self-explanatory and clearly is what we need to do consistently.

lttlrck 8y ago

Isn’t the point how long you used the shaver? And how many lesser shavers would you have needed in that period that would also have ended up on the shelf?

devoply 8y ago

You don't give any particularly good reasons for why you feel a certain way. You have a very specific product, a personal hygiene product so obviously if you no longer want to use it that's your prerogative but that does not negate the value of having something that lasts a long time.

hutzlibu 8y ago

"No one wants a used razor" I believe there are actually quite some people who would take it. But along with sex toys, yes usually a razor is something not for reuse. But actually I cannot think of much more conventionel products who outlive their usefulnes. Except allmost everything with a computer today.. will it connect to other services in 5 years, when the ones from today die out?

dkarl 8y ago
There's a difference between sex toys and razors, which is the nature of the contamination. People know how to clean their sex toys, which as a bonus are designed to be very easy to clean completely. (And when you do it the right way, it's feels obvious that you haven't missed anything. You don't have any lingering doubt.) With somebody else's sex toys, we have a feeling of contamination, but it's not physical, hygienic contamination. It's palpable, but intangible. Razors are much more physically complicated, and many people never disassemble and clean their razor in its whole lifetime. They might know how to open it and shake out the hair that's inside it, but very few people bother to figure out how to clean every nook and cranny and wash out the oils that can accumulate in dark corners. With razors, I think people would be happy to buy a used razor if they knew how to clean it. But they don't, so someone else's razor will always feel dirty to them, in the hygienic sense. Even if people did know how to clean a razor thoroughly, or had confidence that they could learn, they still might rather buy a new one for twice the price rather than put in the effort, but that's a judgement that can be influenced by the ethic of sustainability, if it was standard for manufacturers to design razors that could be cleaned with high confidence and a minimum of skill.
- Invictus0 8y ago
  > They might know how to open it and shake out the hair that's inside it, but very few people bother to figure out how to clean every nook and cranny and wash out the oils that can accumulate in dark corners. Have you seen a Braun razor? There are no corners. The product is as ergonomic as can be and since it's entirely waterproof, I don't know how you can say that "hidden oils" accumulate anywhere. The company even sells a station that cleans it for you. You've unwittingly fallen victim to the same effect you just mentioned: a feeling of contamination that is not actually there. Ultimately, there is little reason for companies to design repairable products when most consumers disdain repair and even used items. I know many people that turn up their nose at buying used items such as cameras or headphones. "Certified pre-owned" is the magic dust that car dealerships need to sprinkle on their cars to make a used car seem new again, along with some vague incantations about inspections. Amazon even sells "expert assembly" packages for products as simple as a bookcase [0]! [0] https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-DrawBridge-Storage-Organization-Cabinet/dp/B0058O8F7I https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-DrawBridge-Storage-Organizat...

einr 8y ago

No one wants a used razor This attitude is part of the problem. Maybe you're right -- although there are 450 listings for used men's Braun electric razors on eBay right now so it's a bit stark to claim that "no one wants a used razor" -- but being squeamish about stuff like this is a silly attitude that we should change. "Eww skin cells and hair" is not a valid excuse to throw away functioning things. We have running water, dishwashers and disinfectants. I don't mean this as an attack on you, but on this prevalent attitude in society that makes you feel like your used razor is worthless.

hatsix 8y ago
Any buyers are in for a surprise, Braun changes their blade designs every few years and after 3 or 4 years, a replacement foil will cost more than a new razor. I have an alert for whenever Amazon's algo goes wacky and the price drops, but it's only happened twice in three years.
chrisseaton 8y ago
Medical professionals say that a used razor can transmit infections and recommend even monogamous couples don’t share them. They wouldn’t re-use a razor more than they’d re-use a needle. You need to apply a little common sense beyond saying re-use everything.
- dathinab 8y ago
  Many electric razors (at last in Germany) consists of a head (which is a bit plastic and the blades) and separate handle (which has the electric parts). So reusing the handles is just fine as they don't get into contact with any cut (through desinfect them anyway). For classical razors you could have a culture of getting a high quality one when you start needing it and then keep it for a lifetime if possible (through you have to sharpen it from time to time).
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- 8y ago

wumms 8y ago

Just keep the old one in the attic. Old Braun vs new razor is like nice laser printer vs. ink jet. I bought a cheap Li-Rechargeable (Philips OneBlade). They charge you half the price of the whole razor for a single blade (15€) which sometimes breaks just when you fumble the long hair trimmer off of it.

thaumaturgy 8y ago

Drop it off at a local Goodwill or similar.

coldtea 8y ago

>I have one that still works, but I stopped using it after several years. No one wants a used razor, so what happens to it? If it was really built to last (and not just some plasticky thing that happens to still work), then someone would very much want it. What's the problem with a "used razor"? People buy all kinds of used things... More so, if it was built to last, any part that could be problematic (e.g. the blade being damaged by the use of the original owner), would be easily replaced, and the rest would be as good as new.

_emacsomancer_ 8y ago

There's certainly a market for the old 'safety' razors as well as straight razors. The 'safety' razors of course require blades, but they still generate less waste than modern cartridge razors. Straight razors require maintenance (keep them dry; strop; sharpen very occasionally), but generate even less waste, and last well (I have one from the late 1700s).

potta_coffee 8y ago
I bought a pack of blades 5 years ago that I'm still working through. There are no plastic bits to throw away, which is a positive IMO.
anticensor 8y ago
A cartridge razor is a safety razor.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  I'm referring to non-cartridge 'safety' razors though. I don't know a good way of referring to this class. Many of these are DE (double-edge), but there are some SE (single-edge) types as well. Razors which are not straight razors or cartridge razors.
random878 8y ago
I switched to a safety razor about 10 to 15 years ago. In that time I've bought two of them (one broke). All I need to buy are the safety razors which are cheaper and use less packaging. It's a win-win. Those fancy cartridge razors from the likes of Gilette are scam!

kpU8efre7r 8y ago

Not everything needs to last but I mostly agree. Some items simply can't last a lifetime like shoe soles. You can buy a shoe that can be re-soled but even that will eventually wear down. Tech products that outlast their usefulness or any product for that matter, should be made from more sustainable materials. Whenever I throw something out I get the mental image of that item sitting in a landfill for eternity and it upsets me. Moreso if it's mostly plastic and contains electronics. This disposable mentality is not sustainable.