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We're likely approaching the day when it'll be more cheap to attempt to build an open Linux phone from scratch rather than keep waiting for a manufacturer to li

We're likely approaching the day when it'll be more cheap to attempt to build an open Linux phone from scratch rather than keep waiting for a manufacturer to listen to a few thousand techies who don't want their personal data chewed by proprietary OSes. That milestone will almost certainly be marked by the availability of cheap 3/4G modems (I'd be perfectly fine with 3G if it was the only option). We're not there but chipsets are becoming cheaper with every portable router or dongle sold, so it's a matter of time. Cheap and small SBCs, displays, batteries and 3D printed cases are already here waiting for the 3/4G chipset to be added.

hopler 8y ago
What about cheap cellular data service for your hackphone?
pjmlp 8y ago
While true, Web based OSes are exactly the opposite of that regarding privacy.
andrey_utkin 8y ago
That's right. This already is happening. I got bored of waiting for "Linux smartphone" and accidentally found that it's actually quite easy and affordable to build a wearable computer from scratch. And I built myself one of course. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/diy-wearable-computer-google-glass-raspberry-pi-instructions https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/c... I just used new generation of the same display, and a one handed Twiddler 3 keyboard. Raspberry pi doesn't have cellular, so I am looking at Zero phone project which has a solution. But so far I am already extracting value from my wearable computer in many easily implementable use cases.
- ioddly 8y ago
  What's battery life like? I'm building a (non-wearable) Pi with touchscreen but haven't been able to get a good estimate.
  - cunidev 8y ago
    The screen is the part to choose wisely if you want good battery life.
  - avip 8y ago
    The pi cannot be a good option if battery life is a concern.
  - andrey_utkin 8y ago
    Battery lasted for almost 4 days when I left just RPi Zero W, idling, connected to Wifi, without X11 running. Battery I am using is this: https://tech.scargill.net/ravpower-the-ultimate-pi-ups/ https://tech.scargill.net/ravpower-the-ultimate-pi-ups/ It indeed helpfully maintains stable power output when being plugged and unplugged from mains itself. But only on one of the output ports. Also this is not always true when there's active power consumer on the second port. Other than that, I'm happy I found this powerbank model.
- LeoPanthera 8y ago
  Non-amp url: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/diy-wearable-computer-google-glass-raspberry-pi-instructions https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/d...
  - andrey_utkin 8y ago
    Yeah, terribly sorry, I just pasted it without looking, was on the phone.
    - squarefoot 8y ago
      One more reason why we badly need FOSS+H phones :) Interesting project btw. And really good battery life, although in idle, considering the RPis aren't certainly optimized for low consumption like other boards are.
neilv 8y ago
I've been looking at this (most recently, got a 3.5" touchscreen for a RasPi3B+), but an option for a Linux handheld that fits in your pocket today might be off-the-shelf smartphone device with PostmarketOS: https://postmarketos.org/ https://postmarketos.org/ PostmarketOS is still in a developers-only state, and there's a lot of directions you could take everything that's atop the kernel. My own whim was to incrementally build the userland in Racket (though that's on hold during job search); notes: https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/ https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/
blackflame7000 8y ago
The cheapest 4G modem I can find is still $80. I wonder how they are making the entire phone for just $7
- ac29 8y ago
  The SoC they are using (Qualcomm 205) seems to be less than $10 in single unit quantities: https://www.kynix.com/Detail/1331087/MSM8905.html https://www.kynix.com/Detail/1331087/MSM8905.html
  - TkTech 8y ago
    From that site: 1+: $9.87257 10+: $9.31375 100+: $8.78655 500+: $8.28920 1000+: $7.82000 That is absurdly cheap, and you can be sure with million-unit orders they're probably getting half that price and working direct with the manufacturer. $7.82 per unit @ 1000 for that feature set[1] brings it into the realm of hobbyists to make their own phones. Order the chips, prototype PCB, battery, charger circuit, low-res touchscreen , and mounts for USB+SD+audio from China and get them within a week. 3D print some cases, spend 20 days trying to get video output working on the completely undocumented Chinese display, boom. Made your own functional (but ugly and bad) phone for < $35. [1]: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-205-mobile-platform https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-205-mobile-platfo...
    - StudentStuff 8y ago
      Looks like the Qualcomm 205 is a pin compatible replacement for the Snapdragon 210/212, whereby they figured out they could trim out a few hardware chunks (H.265 decoding & 8MP camera support) and save on manufacturing (smaller dies) and licensing costs. Plus, this cheaper chip can be dropped into phone designs from 2014 (Snapdragon 210) and 2015 (Snapdragon 212) with little to no engineering or software work. Seems like a great way to reuse tested cheap phone designs without additional cost or delay in getting products to market.
- squarefoot 8y ago
  There are however some interesting cheaper cards/adapters/dongles worth of investigating. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77W595-T77W595-796928-00-4G-WWAN-MODULE-150M-Elite-x2-840-850/32810984505.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77... https://www.amazon.com/powerday-Mini-PCI-Adapter-Module/dp/B01ET7KFSQ https://www.amazon.com/powerday-Mini-PCI-Adapter-Module/dp/B... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-SIM-Card-4G-LTE-USB-Modem-Network-Adapter-Wireless-Sim-Dongle-With-WiFi/32829191561.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-SIM-Card-4G-LTE-... Last one is a complete hotspot and apparently can use the USB port either as a 4G modem (maybe WiFi card also through an internal hub?) or as a power supply port when stuck on a power bank.

hopler 8y ago

What about cheap cellular data service for your hackphone?

pjmlp 8y ago

While true, Web based OSes are exactly the opposite of that regarding privacy.

andrey_utkin 8y ago

That's right. This already is happening. I got bored of waiting for "Linux smartphone" and accidentally found that it's actually quite easy and affordable to build a wearable computer from scratch. And I built myself one of course. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/diy-wearable-computer-google-glass-raspberry-pi-instructions https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/c... I just used new generation of the same display, and a one handed Twiddler 3 keyboard. Raspberry pi doesn't have cellular, so I am looking at Zero phone project which has a solution. But so far I am already extracting value from my wearable computer in many easily implementable use cases.

ioddly 8y ago
What's battery life like? I'm building a (non-wearable) Pi with touchscreen but haven't been able to get a good estimate.
- cunidev 8y ago
  The screen is the part to choose wisely if you want good battery life.
- avip 8y ago
  The pi cannot be a good option if battery life is a concern.
- andrey_utkin 8y ago
  Battery lasted for almost 4 days when I left just RPi Zero W, idling, connected to Wifi, without X11 running. Battery I am using is this: https://tech.scargill.net/ravpower-the-ultimate-pi-ups/ https://tech.scargill.net/ravpower-the-ultimate-pi-ups/ It indeed helpfully maintains stable power output when being plugged and unplugged from mains itself. But only on one of the output ports. Also this is not always true when there's active power consumer on the second port. Other than that, I'm happy I found this powerbank model.
LeoPanthera 8y ago
Non-amp url: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/diy-wearable-computer-google-glass-raspberry-pi-instructions https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/7/27/16035508/d...
- andrey_utkin 8y ago
  Yeah, terribly sorry, I just pasted it without looking, was on the phone.
  - squarefoot 8y ago
    One more reason why we badly need FOSS+H phones :) Interesting project btw. And really good battery life, although in idle, considering the RPis aren't certainly optimized for low consumption like other boards are.

neilv 8y ago

I've been looking at this (most recently, got a 3.5" touchscreen for a RasPi3B+), but an option for a Linux handheld that fits in your pocket today might be off-the-shelf smartphone device with PostmarketOS: https://postmarketos.org/ https://postmarketos.org/ PostmarketOS is still in a developers-only state, and there's a lot of directions you could take everything that's atop the kernel. My own whim was to incrementally build the userland in Racket (though that's on hold during job search); notes: https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/ https://www.neilvandyke.org/postmarketos/

blackflame7000 8y ago

The cheapest 4G modem I can find is still $80. I wonder how they are making the entire phone for just $7

ac29 8y ago
The SoC they are using (Qualcomm 205) seems to be less than $10 in single unit quantities: https://www.kynix.com/Detail/1331087/MSM8905.html https://www.kynix.com/Detail/1331087/MSM8905.html
- TkTech 8y ago
  From that site: 1+: $9.87257 10+: $9.31375 100+: $8.78655 500+: $8.28920 1000+: $7.82000 That is absurdly cheap, and you can be sure with million-unit orders they're probably getting half that price and working direct with the manufacturer. $7.82 per unit @ 1000 for that feature set[1] brings it into the realm of hobbyists to make their own phones. Order the chips, prototype PCB, battery, charger circuit, low-res touchscreen , and mounts for USB+SD+audio from China and get them within a week. 3D print some cases, spend 20 days trying to get video output working on the completely undocumented Chinese display, boom. Made your own functional (but ugly and bad) phone for < $35. [1]: https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-205-mobile-platform https://www.qualcomm.com/products/qualcomm-205-mobile-platfo...
  - StudentStuff 8y ago
    Looks like the Qualcomm 205 is a pin compatible replacement for the Snapdragon 210/212, whereby they figured out they could trim out a few hardware chunks (H.265 decoding & 8MP camera support) and save on manufacturing (smaller dies) and licensing costs. Plus, this cheaper chip can be dropped into phone designs from 2014 (Snapdragon 210) and 2015 (Snapdragon 212) with little to no engineering or software work. Seems like a great way to reuse tested cheap phone designs without additional cost or delay in getting products to market.
squarefoot 8y ago
There are however some interesting cheaper cards/adapters/dongles worth of investigating. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77W595-T77W595-796928-00-4G-WWAN-MODULE-150M-Elite-x2-840-850/32810984505.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/lt4120-Snapdragon-X5-LTE-T77... https://www.amazon.com/powerday-Mini-PCI-Adapter-Module/dp/B01ET7KFSQ https://www.amazon.com/powerday-Mini-PCI-Adapter-Module/dp/B... https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-SIM-Card-4G-LTE-USB-Modem-Network-Adapter-Wireless-Sim-Dongle-With-WiFi/32829191561.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017-Newest-SIM-Card-4G-LTE-... Last one is a complete hotspot and apparently can use the USB port either as a 4G modem (maybe WiFi card also through an internal hub?) or as a power supply port when stuck on a power bank.